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Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Reloading
Way in or way out ?
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<blockquote data-quote="4ked Horn" data-source="post: 98356" data-attributes="member: 11"><p>[ QUOTE ]</p><p> If you'll be fair with me, you will notice that I have not offered any advice to members here as to bullet types, chamberings, etc., that they should use on large game beyond 600 yards. I've kept to the Handloading and Optics forums, where I believe I can offer meaningful participation. I'll never speak to the things I have no personal experience with. But if you want to talk about 700+ yard shots on groundhogs and other varmints, I'll be there. </p><p></p><p>[/ QUOTE ] </p><p></p><p>Fair enough.</p><p></p><p> [ QUOTE ]</p><p> I based that on the truth. Most members here aren't using benchrest rigs to take game at long range. An MOA group at 600 yards will lose big time in a BR comp (unless conditions are awful) but will handily take even a smallish deer at that range. </p><p></p><p>I don't believe you mean that the exact rifles used in 1000 yard BR comps are what should be prescribed for elk at 1000 yards--so I'm not putting words in your mouth. Most of these rifles are 6mm and 6.5 mm max, which would certainly take a back seat to the 30 and 33 caliber magnums for the purpose. </p><p></p><p>[/ QUOTE ] </p><p></p><p>Most members are not using BR guns in the field but they are loading with BR techniques, they are having actions blueprinted and bedded and bbls crowned in BR style and are using BR / field hybrids with Nesika actions and Bat actions. It all has a very BR tone about it.</p><p></p><p>And then there are guys who are using exactly BR gear. For a while here there were so many posts about 6.5x284s that I thought the .308 had been discontinued. BR guns are spendy but there are more than just a few here that do use them in the field with bench and mechanical rests and the whole 9 yards. There are also those who shoot at the extreme ranges that employ BR guns but simply in the large calibers. The guns weigh in over 25 pounds and many going into the 50s. Good Groupers .338 is actually the second 50+ pound gun I have ever seen personally. the first was a 60 pound .308 Baer being shot at a BR match in Chalis Id. (He won the match in his class BTW). So yes I am saying exactly that BR is interwoven inextricably through the fibers of long range hunting.</p><p></p><p> [ QUOTE ]</p><p> I don't understand what technique you're referring to in this sentence. Are you referring to OCW load development? </p><p></p><p>[/ QUOTE ] </p><p></p><p>Yep. Maybe I should have said procedure. You are obviously a believer in the OCW idea but something just isn't clicking in to place here (in my perception) and that is why I posted. I was thinking that if even a few people knew of your experience they would know where you were coming from. It might temper the discussion. I have been visiting with guys here for some time and I am familiar with some of their accomplishments. I am going to, for the first time, try a ladder test at their reccomendation. Now you are running head to head with guys that have been ladder testing for years with great results and you want them to give your OCW a try. Why should they? Honestly it sounds interesting but is not far removed from the "shoot groups with different powder charges" method. They will listen more if you can show them how it is an improvement. If I can shoot a ladder to zoom in on a start to a fantastic load for my gun (which is all I care about) why would I shoot more bullets to get a load that is good in several rifles? I would be more inclined to listen if the person with this new procedure showed me pictures of a 600 yard deer he shot in the snow at 5000 feet altitude AND a picture of a 1000 yard coyote taken in a sage desert in rattlesnake weather using the same load.</p><p></p><p>It happens every day. There are folks with good ideas that get shut down at the door because no one knows who they are. There is no background. Yes your ideas <em>should</em> stand on their own merrits, but they won't. That is the same as saying "I'm tellin' ya, the engineers said it would work." If you had something to show that was different and better I think your conversations here would be easier.</p><p></p><p>But this is all just my point of view and really nothing more than a suggestion. If it helps then good. If you don't see it as helpful that is fine as well. Now work is calling so I gotta go. Have a good day. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="4ked Horn, post: 98356, member: 11"] [ QUOTE ] If you'll be fair with me, you will notice that I have not offered any advice to members here as to bullet types, chamberings, etc., that they should use on large game beyond 600 yards. I've kept to the Handloading and Optics forums, where I believe I can offer meaningful participation. I'll never speak to the things I have no personal experience with. But if you want to talk about 700+ yard shots on groundhogs and other varmints, I'll be there. [/ QUOTE ] Fair enough. [ QUOTE ] I based that on the truth. Most members here aren't using benchrest rigs to take game at long range. An MOA group at 600 yards will lose big time in a BR comp (unless conditions are awful) but will handily take even a smallish deer at that range. I don't believe you mean that the exact rifles used in 1000 yard BR comps are what should be prescribed for elk at 1000 yards--so I'm not putting words in your mouth. Most of these rifles are 6mm and 6.5 mm max, which would certainly take a back seat to the 30 and 33 caliber magnums for the purpose. [/ QUOTE ] Most members are not using BR guns in the field but they are loading with BR techniques, they are having actions blueprinted and bedded and bbls crowned in BR style and are using BR / field hybrids with Nesika actions and Bat actions. It all has a very BR tone about it. And then there are guys who are using exactly BR gear. For a while here there were so many posts about 6.5x284s that I thought the .308 had been discontinued. BR guns are spendy but there are more than just a few here that do use them in the field with bench and mechanical rests and the whole 9 yards. There are also those who shoot at the extreme ranges that employ BR guns but simply in the large calibers. The guns weigh in over 25 pounds and many going into the 50s. Good Groupers .338 is actually the second 50+ pound gun I have ever seen personally. the first was a 60 pound .308 Baer being shot at a BR match in Chalis Id. (He won the match in his class BTW). So yes I am saying exactly that BR is interwoven inextricably through the fibers of long range hunting. [ QUOTE ] I don't understand what technique you're referring to in this sentence. Are you referring to OCW load development? [/ QUOTE ] Yep. Maybe I should have said procedure. You are obviously a believer in the OCW idea but something just isn't clicking in to place here (in my perception) and that is why I posted. I was thinking that if even a few people knew of your experience they would know where you were coming from. It might temper the discussion. I have been visiting with guys here for some time and I am familiar with some of their accomplishments. I am going to, for the first time, try a ladder test at their reccomendation. Now you are running head to head with guys that have been ladder testing for years with great results and you want them to give your OCW a try. Why should they? Honestly it sounds interesting but is not far removed from the "shoot groups with different powder charges" method. They will listen more if you can show them how it is an improvement. If I can shoot a ladder to zoom in on a start to a fantastic load for my gun (which is all I care about) why would I shoot more bullets to get a load that is good in several rifles? I would be more inclined to listen if the person with this new procedure showed me pictures of a 600 yard deer he shot in the snow at 5000 feet altitude AND a picture of a 1000 yard coyote taken in a sage desert in rattlesnake weather using the same load. It happens every day. There are folks with good ideas that get shut down at the door because no one knows who they are. There is no background. Yes your ideas [i]should[/i] stand on their own merrits, but they won't. That is the same as saying "I'm tellin' ya, the engineers said it would work." If you had something to show that was different and better I think your conversations here would be easier. But this is all just my point of view and really nothing more than a suggestion. If it helps then good. If you don't see it as helpful that is fine as well. Now work is calling so I gotta go. Have a good day. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [/QUOTE]
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