Forums
New posts
Search forums
What's new
Articles
Latest reviews
Author list
Classifieds
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles and first posts only
Search titles only
By:
New posts
Search forums
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Forums
Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Reloading
Very first ladder test, take a look.
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="green 788" data-source="post: 94376" data-attributes="member: 3781"><p><strong>"OCW is all about getting MOA groups under ideal conditions...</strong> </p><p></p><p>You haven't read the text of my website if that's what you actually believe. The MOA standard is for the low, normal, and high charged shots. Here is what I'm talking about:</p><p></p><p><img src="http://home.earthlink.net/~dannewberry/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/243ocw75.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /> The above is a sub MOA group with THREE DIFFERENT powder charges. </p><p></p><p>And at 300 yards:</p><p></p><p><img src="http://home.earthlink.net/~dannewberry/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/OCWwithdime.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /></p><p>This group, consisting of the low, normal, and high shots at 300 yards is actually about 1/2 MOA. </p><p></p><p>When you go to all 43.6 grains, groups at 300 yards are unbelievably tight. I've actually printed dozens of 1/3 MOA five shot groups at that range when conditions allowed--<em>using OCW loads, first identified at 100 yards</em>.</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>"Dan might disagree but that is OK (nothing personal, will buy him a beer and still argue the merits), every one else figure out which way you want to go."</strong></p><p></p><p>I will take the beer! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif</p><p></p><p><strong>"If I only had a factory gun and only a 100 yard range then maybe OCW would be viable."</strong></p><p></p><p>This was the <em>first</em> 1000+ yard group fired with a recently developed OCW load developed at 100 yards--from a factory barreled Savage. The brass was not match prepped in any way, and the load had not yet been tuned with seating depth adjustments.</p><p></p><p><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v114/green788/1040_yards.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>"1. The accuracy standards are different. the standard for OCW is MOA (based on Dans website and previous postings). Ladder goal is sub MOA."</strong> Nowhere on my site do I suggest that one should stop accuracy testing when MOA is reached. Again, you're reading only bits and pieces of the text, and jumping to conclusions. The MOA standard I mention is for the low, normal, and high charged shots--all together. If you load only the normal shots on an OCW recipe, it tends to look like this:</p><p></p><p><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v114/green788/Nosler180OCW.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /> Again, from a factory barrel at 315 yards. Bring on the customs, by the way. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif</p><p></p><p><strong>"2. OCW you do not use a chrono, has no purpose."</strong> That is true. You're 1 for 3 now. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif </p><p></p><p><strong>"I think that if all you want is MOA, then OCW will give you that, which maybe makes it OK for factory barrels. However, as I stated earlier I can take almost any components and get MOA with a match barrel."</strong></p><p></p><p>Here's the <em>first</em> testing at 1062 yards of an OCW load, developed at 100 yards for a Douglas 8 twist .243 win. The brass was regular Winchester stuff, just drawn from the bag--no match prepping, no weighing. The two high shots are likely odd weight cases, but as you can see, the group is still MOA at extreme range. Subsequent groups have been even better...</p><p></p><p><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v114/green788/1062yds.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /></p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>"For example, He states that reaming flashholes for uniformity is waste of time and subject to dispute within the BR community."</strong> </p><p></p><p>You're partially right about this. 1.5 for 4 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif ... I've never seen the need to deburr flash hole on good brass. I just went through 200 Lapua 6.5 x 55 cases the other day, checking their overall condition, etc. I noted that there was not even a hint of a burr in any of those flash holes. Probably they are drilled. In any event, if you're looking for BR type accuracy from Winchester or Remington brass and you'd like to deburr flash holes, you'll get no argument from me--other than to question your choice in brass. </p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>"He also does not believe that seating depth plays a role in loading, only as long as all seated the same length on the ogive."</strong> </p><p></p><p>***? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif If you'll read elsewhere on my site, you'll see that I certainly <em>do</em> believe setting the proper seating depth is important. Most guys--yeah, even the BR gurus--get this bass-ackwards. You want to adjust seating depth <em>after</em> you have identified the OCW. While it is true that any reasonable, uniform seating depth will do for OCW testing, you don't want to just leave things at that--unless the group sizes are already satisfying you--in which case you should save the components and the time and the barrel wear and just go hunting. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif</p><p> I actually advocate what I call "depth tuning" which, after the OCW has been identified, will allow you to make the load even more accurate. By the way, the only load actually depth tuned in the target photo above is the 180 gr Nosler BT/Varget load. On the 1000+ yard targets shown, the loads had not even been depth tuned yet.</p><p> </p><p>Hope this clears things up some... </p><p></p><p>Dan</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="green 788, post: 94376, member: 3781"] [b]"OCW is all about getting MOA groups under ideal conditions...[/b] You haven't read the text of my website if that's what you actually believe. The MOA standard is for the low, normal, and high charged shots. Here is what I'm talking about: [img]http://home.earthlink.net/~dannewberry/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/243ocw75.jpg[/img] The above is a sub MOA group with THREE DIFFERENT powder charges. And at 300 yards: [img]http://home.earthlink.net/~dannewberry/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/OCWwithdime.jpg[/img] This group, consisting of the low, normal, and high shots at 300 yards is actually about 1/2 MOA. When you go to all 43.6 grains, groups at 300 yards are unbelievably tight. I've actually printed dozens of 1/3 MOA five shot groups at that range when conditions allowed--[i]using OCW loads, first identified at 100 yards[/i]. [b]"Dan might disagree but that is OK (nothing personal, will buy him a beer and still argue the merits), every one else figure out which way you want to go."[/b] I will take the beer! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [b]"If I only had a factory gun and only a 100 yard range then maybe OCW would be viable."[/b] This was the [i]first[/i] 1000+ yard group fired with a recently developed OCW load developed at 100 yards--from a factory barreled Savage. The brass was not match prepped in any way, and the load had not yet been tuned with seating depth adjustments. [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v114/green788/1040_yards.jpg[/img] [b]"1. The accuracy standards are different. the standard for OCW is MOA (based on Dans website and previous postings). Ladder goal is sub MOA."[/b] Nowhere on my site do I suggest that one should stop accuracy testing when MOA is reached. Again, you're reading only bits and pieces of the text, and jumping to conclusions. The MOA standard I mention is for the low, normal, and high charged shots--all together. If you load only the normal shots on an OCW recipe, it tends to look like this: [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v114/green788/Nosler180OCW.jpg[/img] Again, from a factory barrel at 315 yards. Bring on the customs, by the way. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] [b]"2. OCW you do not use a chrono, has no purpose."[/b] That is true. You're 1 for 3 now. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] [b]"I think that if all you want is MOA, then OCW will give you that, which maybe makes it OK for factory barrels. However, as I stated earlier I can take almost any components and get MOA with a match barrel."[/b] Here's the [i]first[/i] testing at 1062 yards of an OCW load, developed at 100 yards for a Douglas 8 twist .243 win. The brass was regular Winchester stuff, just drawn from the bag--no match prepping, no weighing. The two high shots are likely odd weight cases, but as you can see, the group is still MOA at extreme range. Subsequent groups have been even better... [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v114/green788/1062yds.jpg[/img] [b]"For example, He states that reaming flashholes for uniformity is waste of time and subject to dispute within the BR community."[/b] You're partially right about this. 1.5 for 4 [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] ... I've never seen the need to deburr flash hole on good brass. I just went through 200 Lapua 6.5 x 55 cases the other day, checking their overall condition, etc. I noted that there was not even a hint of a burr in any of those flash holes. Probably they are drilled. In any event, if you're looking for BR type accuracy from Winchester or Remington brass and you'd like to deburr flash holes, you'll get no argument from me--other than to question your choice in brass. [b]"He also does not believe that seating depth plays a role in loading, only as long as all seated the same length on the ogive."[/b] ***? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] If you'll read elsewhere on my site, you'll see that I certainly [i]do[/i] believe setting the proper seating depth is important. Most guys--yeah, even the BR gurus--get this bass-ackwards. You want to adjust seating depth [i]after[/i] you have identified the OCW. While it is true that any reasonable, uniform seating depth will do for OCW testing, you don't want to just leave things at that--unless the group sizes are already satisfying you--in which case you should save the components and the time and the barrel wear and just go hunting. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I actually advocate what I call "depth tuning" which, after the OCW has been identified, will allow you to make the load even more accurate. By the way, the only load actually depth tuned in the target photo above is the 180 gr Nosler BT/Varget load. On the 1000+ yard targets shown, the loads had not even been depth tuned yet. Hope this clears things up some... Dan [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Forums
Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Reloading
Very first ladder test, take a look.
Top