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Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics
Vertical component of wind drift
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<blockquote data-quote="4mesh063" data-source="post: 26197" data-attributes="member: 941"><p>S1, </p><p></p><p>OK. I see what you mean. I place myself in a category somewhat like yourself on this where I think that from observation alone, some holes are shot in the idea. I've now had 2 days of discussion about this subject and read the entire section and related sections again, this time with more reading comprehension applied. I still disagree with this in part, if not in majority. </p><p></p><p>I was up till 2am going over the theory and calculations last night and the A #1 thing that I see that blows a hole in this is the fact that if you shoot hardened ball bearings out of a smooth bore gun, wind will not affect them according to harold. Bzzzz. No way. The way I see it, the bullet should attempt to drive INTO the wind if what he is saying is correct. He shows a picture of a bullet with a drag line and reverses the effect that I feel would exist, if one does. My experience with gyroscopes, probably like yours, is limited to the toys I had as a kid, and the one in my new binoculars that does not count. A gyroscope, will move freely in space anywhere perpendicular to it's axis of rotation. But, it won't move (or tries not to) move axialy against the rotational axis. What he contends is that the bullet is happy to pitch or yaw in that direction but will not blow in the direction that it should be happy to move. I'm just not sold on the idea, it is interesting, and I 100% agree that it is NOT a straight line progression. I would agree if one of you said that it was a straight line acceleration. This is plausable. </p><p></p><p>Another thing that shoots this in the foot is that in his section on muzzle blast, which is also referenced from Ch 6, he places a screen with a bunch of wickers on it to shoot through and examine muzzle blast. Now, he placed the screens at 18' from the muzzle. He contends there that the bullet has only just left the effect of the supersonic muzzle cloud at the time it passes the screen, but in the Gyro/Prec section and modeling, he shows a fast and slow precession out to 200 yards. There he says that the bullet has already aligned itself to the drag line by the end of the first fast precession. BS. It's still sitting in a supersonic cloud. I count on one example, the best one as he says, 11 slow precessions at 200yards, and in that first slow, 11 fast precessions. He says that by the end of the first fast precession, the bullet has already chosen its attitude aligned to the drag vector. Now, discluding deceleration due to flight time, that means that the bullet in the first 19.83 inches, has allready determined it's final home. In a perfect world and with dead constant wind from bench to target, as the model suggests. I've never heard such a crock of @#$@# in my life. I do not doubt that there could be some substantiated facts in this section, but, I will not buy this even a little bit. I AM going to test this with a 100mph wind for myself and determine if there is even a chance that there is truth here, and I will check it this weekend. I'll let you know how it turns out.</p><p></p><p>This is fun, ya know. I just wish it was simpler so I could move on!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="4mesh063, post: 26197, member: 941"] S1, OK. I see what you mean. I place myself in a category somewhat like yourself on this where I think that from observation alone, some holes are shot in the idea. I've now had 2 days of discussion about this subject and read the entire section and related sections again, this time with more reading comprehension applied. I still disagree with this in part, if not in majority. I was up till 2am going over the theory and calculations last night and the A #1 thing that I see that blows a hole in this is the fact that if you shoot hardened ball bearings out of a smooth bore gun, wind will not affect them according to harold. Bzzzz. No way. The way I see it, the bullet should attempt to drive INTO the wind if what he is saying is correct. He shows a picture of a bullet with a drag line and reverses the effect that I feel would exist, if one does. My experience with gyroscopes, probably like yours, is limited to the toys I had as a kid, and the one in my new binoculars that does not count. A gyroscope, will move freely in space anywhere perpendicular to it's axis of rotation. But, it won't move (or tries not to) move axialy against the rotational axis. What he contends is that the bullet is happy to pitch or yaw in that direction but will not blow in the direction that it should be happy to move. I'm just not sold on the idea, it is interesting, and I 100% agree that it is NOT a straight line progression. I would agree if one of you said that it was a straight line acceleration. This is plausable. Another thing that shoots this in the foot is that in his section on muzzle blast, which is also referenced from Ch 6, he places a screen with a bunch of wickers on it to shoot through and examine muzzle blast. Now, he placed the screens at 18' from the muzzle. He contends there that the bullet has only just left the effect of the supersonic muzzle cloud at the time it passes the screen, but in the Gyro/Prec section and modeling, he shows a fast and slow precession out to 200 yards. There he says that the bullet has already aligned itself to the drag line by the end of the first fast precession. BS. It's still sitting in a supersonic cloud. I count on one example, the best one as he says, 11 slow precessions at 200yards, and in that first slow, 11 fast precessions. He says that by the end of the first fast precession, the bullet has already chosen its attitude aligned to the drag vector. Now, discluding deceleration due to flight time, that means that the bullet in the first 19.83 inches, has allready determined it's final home. In a perfect world and with dead constant wind from bench to target, as the model suggests. I've never heard such a crock of @#$@# in my life. I do not doubt that there could be some substantiated facts in this section, but, I will not buy this even a little bit. I AM going to test this with a 100mph wind for myself and determine if there is even a chance that there is truth here, and I will check it this weekend. I'll let you know how it turns out. This is fun, ya know. I just wish it was simpler so I could move on! [/QUOTE]
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Vertical component of wind drift
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