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Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Reloading
To neck size or full length size???
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<blockquote data-quote="Pdvdh" data-source="post: 956836" data-attributes="member: 4191"><p>10-4 and Roger that.</p><p></p><p>The biggest negative element of concern with FL sizing I've experienced over the years is when my factory FL sizing die has been excessively undersized, compared to the rifle chamber. </p><p></p><p>Having a custom sizing die made to closely fit the rifle chamber (just slightly under the dimensions of the rifle chamber) is perhaps the very best solution. Some have two chamber reamers manufactured - one for the rifle chamber and one for a custom FL resizing die or body die.</p><p></p><p>I once owned a Ruger 77 .338 Win Mag with a sloppy chamber (probably on the large side of allowable specs) and/or a RCBS FL sizer die on the small dimension side of things. I was a novice in these matters back in the mid-70s, and this was a bad recipe. I couldn't back off the FL sizing die to partial neck size with it because the base-of-case to shoulder dimension grew so much the bolt wouldn't close. This is the problem Micheal Eichele was describing in his post #18. So I had to fully run the cases into that RCBS die every time to shove the shoulder down to the point the cases would chamber in the rifle. Between that FL sizer die and the large chamber in the rifle, the brass was worked so much that incipient case head separations were visible on the brass within 3 reloads. I sold that rifle largely because it had a sloppy chamber (I never measured the chamber - just presumed the mis-match was more caused by the rifle chamber than the RCBS die).</p><p></p><p>Although my recent experience with a factory RCBS .223 FL sizing die (1982 date of manufacture on the RCBS die) leaves me wondering if that .338 RCBS die wasn't manufactured at the minimum allowable specs for the .338 WM cartridge. I recently loaded some .223 ammo for an AR15. Wasn't too worried about target accuracy so I simply purchased a used RCBS FL die set. After the fact, I decide to check some of my loaded ammo for runout, and was disappointed to measure total indicated runout (TIR) averaging around 0.007". So I started troubleshooting with all my case measuring tools, and learned that my RCBS FL sizer die was reducing outside case neck diameter down to 0.235". My fired case neck ODs measure about 0.254". So the neck in the RCBS die was .020" smaller than my fired case necks, and <u>about 0.010" smaller than necessary to hold a bullet</u>. My solution was to order a Forster FL resizing die with a custom honed neck diameter of 0.2435". Forster will custom hone the neck of one of their FL resizing dies for a $12 fee. I use the Forster FL die with its neck expander stem, but the neck expander now only expands my case necks about 0.001", whereas the RCBS FL die neck expander had to expand the case necks about 0.009" (0.235" up to 0.244" OD). This was the source of my excessive TIR. The Forster die works the case necks WAY less than the RCBS die. The improvement was measured in a greatly reduced TIR. TIR with the RCBS die was in the 0.005 to 0.010" range. TIR with the Forster die falls within the 0.001 to 0.0035" range.</p><p></p><p>For comparison's sake, when I called Forster to order their custom honed .223 FL sizing die, I asked and learned that their .223 FL dies are manufactured with neck diameters of 0.240". This is 0.005 - 0.006" larger in diameter than the neck in my RCBS FL die. And thru some internet research and measuring of my own .223 casings, I learned that a FL sizer die with a case neck diameter of 0.244" will allow most cases to be sized and loaded without the use of the neck expander button. The OD on my .223 shells, with bullet seated, measure about 0.2455". So Forster manufactures their .223 FL dies with the neck diameter about 0.0055" smaller than the OD of the necks on my loaded shells, with bullets seated.</p><p></p><p>FL sizing with FL resizing dies that are a close match to the rifle's chamber size helps minimize many problems associated with FL sizing of cases. That is, IF the die is set up properly. </p><p></p><p>Myself, I do a blend of the two - neck sizing and FL sizing. But I reduce my fired casing dimensions the least amount possible when FL sizing. I won't use FL sizing dies if they're too much smaller in dimension than my rifle's chamber in my bolt action rifles. The Body dies from Redding seem to be a good method to minimally resize fired casings, and I own several of them for differing cartridges I load for.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Pdvdh, post: 956836, member: 4191"] 10-4 and Roger that. The biggest negative element of concern with FL sizing I've experienced over the years is when my factory FL sizing die has been excessively undersized, compared to the rifle chamber. Having a custom sizing die made to closely fit the rifle chamber (just slightly under the dimensions of the rifle chamber) is perhaps the very best solution. Some have two chamber reamers manufactured - one for the rifle chamber and one for a custom FL resizing die or body die. I once owned a Ruger 77 .338 Win Mag with a sloppy chamber (probably on the large side of allowable specs) and/or a RCBS FL sizer die on the small dimension side of things. I was a novice in these matters back in the mid-70s, and this was a bad recipe. I couldn't back off the FL sizing die to partial neck size with it because the base-of-case to shoulder dimension grew so much the bolt wouldn't close. This is the problem Micheal Eichele was describing in his post #18. So I had to fully run the cases into that RCBS die every time to shove the shoulder down to the point the cases would chamber in the rifle. Between that FL sizer die and the large chamber in the rifle, the brass was worked so much that incipient case head separations were visible on the brass within 3 reloads. I sold that rifle largely because it had a sloppy chamber (I never measured the chamber - just presumed the mis-match was more caused by the rifle chamber than the RCBS die). Although my recent experience with a factory RCBS .223 FL sizing die (1982 date of manufacture on the RCBS die) leaves me wondering if that .338 RCBS die wasn't manufactured at the minimum allowable specs for the .338 WM cartridge. I recently loaded some .223 ammo for an AR15. Wasn't too worried about target accuracy so I simply purchased a used RCBS FL die set. After the fact, I decide to check some of my loaded ammo for runout, and was disappointed to measure total indicated runout (TIR) averaging around 0.007". So I started troubleshooting with all my case measuring tools, and learned that my RCBS FL sizer die was reducing outside case neck diameter down to 0.235". My fired case neck ODs measure about 0.254". So the neck in the RCBS die was .020" smaller than my fired case necks, and [U]about 0.010" smaller than necessary to hold a bullet[/U]. My solution was to order a Forster FL resizing die with a custom honed neck diameter of 0.2435". Forster will custom hone the neck of one of their FL resizing dies for a $12 fee. I use the Forster FL die with its neck expander stem, but the neck expander now only expands my case necks about 0.001", whereas the RCBS FL die neck expander had to expand the case necks about 0.009" (0.235" up to 0.244" OD). This was the source of my excessive TIR. The Forster die works the case necks WAY less than the RCBS die. The improvement was measured in a greatly reduced TIR. TIR with the RCBS die was in the 0.005 to 0.010" range. TIR with the Forster die falls within the 0.001 to 0.0035" range. For comparison's sake, when I called Forster to order their custom honed .223 FL sizing die, I asked and learned that their .223 FL dies are manufactured with neck diameters of 0.240". This is 0.005 - 0.006" larger in diameter than the neck in my RCBS FL die. And thru some internet research and measuring of my own .223 casings, I learned that a FL sizer die with a case neck diameter of 0.244" will allow most cases to be sized and loaded without the use of the neck expander button. The OD on my .223 shells, with bullet seated, measure about 0.2455". So Forster manufactures their .223 FL dies with the neck diameter about 0.0055" smaller than the OD of the necks on my loaded shells, with bullets seated. FL sizing with FL resizing dies that are a close match to the rifle's chamber size helps minimize many problems associated with FL sizing of cases. That is, IF the die is set up properly. Myself, I do a blend of the two - neck sizing and FL sizing. But I reduce my fired casing dimensions the least amount possible when FL sizing. I won't use FL sizing dies if they're too much smaller in dimension than my rifle's chamber in my bolt action rifles. The Body dies from Redding seem to be a good method to minimally resize fired casings, and I own several of them for differing cartridges I load for. [/QUOTE]
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To neck size or full length size???
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