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Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Muzzleloader Hunting
The ULTIMATE MUZZLE-LOADER!
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<blockquote data-quote="RMulhern" data-source="post: 178733" data-attributes="member: 999"><p><strong>Smokeless vs the other!</strong></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Roll-Yur-Own</p><p></p><p>I don't think so! Savage....needs to go back to the drawing board with their so-called 'smokeless' ML! Smokeless powder is much more difficult to ignite than blackpowder and IMO....the breech-plug on the Savage is built with a lot of length to it such that the flashtube is much too long and even with the powders that Savage is recommending.....ignition is not consistant! The 209 primer just isn't hot enough to 'jump' 1 1/2" to lite things up...in a consistant manner. Think about this: In a regular smokeless powder case....the powder sits right atop the primer and a F215 primer lights the powder up quite well. The 'fire'....doesn't have to jump at all and ignition is excellent! Not so....with the design of the Savage and especially with a 209 primer!</p><p></p><p>Blackpowder is the MOST ACCURATE powder in the world! Bar none! And anyone that has done any reading of historical events involving shooting know about this! Blackpowder is used on battleships and one of those big guns can drop a round atop your head from 25 miles off and that's no BS! What gives folks the 'willies' about BP....is the fact that supposedly BP is corrosive and difficult to clean; tain't so....as for the cleaning goes and this thinking is a 'hold-over' from the old 'Hawken days' and info about breaking the rifle out of the stock and plunging the barrel out with hot water and soap! Might be so with a Hawken but with a barrel that has a removable breech plug or a BPCR....cleaning is easier than removing copper fouling from a smokeless barrel and if you shoot enough copper gilding bullets...you will eventually have copper fouling within the bore!</p><p></p><p>The basic reason we've seen the advent of the smokeless powder 'inlines' is because of 'Commercialism' and the fact that many folks just don't understand blackpowder or how to use it!!</p><p></p><p>FOLLOW-UP:</p><p></p><p>We worked with one of these rifles yesterday for several hours and at 100 yds. it will 'clover-leaf' 3 shots....if you hold it! At 200 yds. it will hold 1.75" for 5 shots....all day long! At 300 yds.....still no contest as it will easily hold 2.75" with an occasional 5 shot group going to 3.0"! That's shooting a 275 gr. bullet with the recommended sabots and using what????....225 grs. 777 substitute! Over the years I know guys that have purchased 3-4 so-called accurate 'muzzle-stuffers' with no telling how many $$$$ ****ed off trying to obtain a rifle that shot with consistant results; all to no avail! I have seen a few of these rifles that did shoot quite well but in the final analysis....if a guy wants to make a one-time purchase of a rifle that WILL DELIVER better than excellent accuracy...this may be the way to go and I dare say that $2500.00 would be CHEAP compared to 3-4 other rifles over a period of time! We didn't get to test back to 400 yds. but that's coming! Dark thirty caught us and we lost the light!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="RMulhern, post: 178733, member: 999"] [b]Smokeless vs the other![/b] Roll-Yur-Own I don't think so! Savage....needs to go back to the drawing board with their so-called 'smokeless' ML! Smokeless powder is much more difficult to ignite than blackpowder and IMO....the breech-plug on the Savage is built with a lot of length to it such that the flashtube is much too long and even with the powders that Savage is recommending.....ignition is not consistant! The 209 primer just isn't hot enough to 'jump' 1 1/2" to lite things up...in a consistant manner. Think about this: In a regular smokeless powder case....the powder sits right atop the primer and a F215 primer lights the powder up quite well. The 'fire'....doesn't have to jump at all and ignition is excellent! Not so....with the design of the Savage and especially with a 209 primer! Blackpowder is the MOST ACCURATE powder in the world! Bar none! And anyone that has done any reading of historical events involving shooting know about this! Blackpowder is used on battleships and one of those big guns can drop a round atop your head from 25 miles off and that's no BS! What gives folks the 'willies' about BP....is the fact that supposedly BP is corrosive and difficult to clean; tain't so....as for the cleaning goes and this thinking is a 'hold-over' from the old 'Hawken days' and info about breaking the rifle out of the stock and plunging the barrel out with hot water and soap! Might be so with a Hawken but with a barrel that has a removable breech plug or a BPCR....cleaning is easier than removing copper fouling from a smokeless barrel and if you shoot enough copper gilding bullets...you will eventually have copper fouling within the bore! The basic reason we've seen the advent of the smokeless powder 'inlines' is because of 'Commercialism' and the fact that many folks just don't understand blackpowder or how to use it!! FOLLOW-UP: We worked with one of these rifles yesterday for several hours and at 100 yds. it will 'clover-leaf' 3 shots....if you hold it! At 200 yds. it will hold 1.75" for 5 shots....all day long! At 300 yds.....still no contest as it will easily hold 2.75" with an occasional 5 shot group going to 3.0"! That's shooting a 275 gr. bullet with the recommended sabots and using what????....225 grs. 777 substitute! Over the years I know guys that have purchased 3-4 so-called accurate 'muzzle-stuffers' with no telling how many $$$$ ****ed off trying to obtain a rifle that shot with consistant results; all to no avail! I have seen a few of these rifles that did shoot quite well but in the final analysis....if a guy wants to make a one-time purchase of a rifle that WILL DELIVER better than excellent accuracy...this may be the way to go and I dare say that $2500.00 would be CHEAP compared to 3-4 other rifles over a period of time! We didn't get to test back to 400 yds. but that's coming! Dark thirty caught us and we lost the light! [/QUOTE]
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