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The sense behind Copper Alloy monolithic bullets
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<blockquote data-quote="WildRose" data-source="post: 1245489" data-attributes="member: 30902"><p>You make some good points of course but as far as I can tell there's just no hard data out there to look at since so very few people will ever be tested for heavy metals poisoning.</p><p></p><p>Prior to the last century before high speed projectiles were being fired using smokeless powders and cartridges I don't think it was nearly as big of a problem even with the lead solids so often used. At low velocities there's very little of the splattering that you can see in some of the slow motion videos of gel testing.</p><p></p><p>Yes I have always known that there must be some lead content in the game we consume that has been shot with lead bullets. In most cases using modern cartridges and powders that splattering of lead for the most part is going to take place inside of the rib cage so if we're not eating the organ meats it's just not a really big deal.</p><p></p><p>As far as the food chain, yes, any leaded meat/organs we leave in the field is likely to end up being eaten by opportunistic predators and scavengers from rats all the way up to big bears.</p><p></p><p>In those cases though very little lead is getting into their blood stream because that which is in large portions will mostly pass through them never being metabolized.</p><p></p><p>The bulk of it will pass with the rest of the waste when Smokey goes squatting in the woods. Does a little of it make it through? Sure, but then they aren't eating leaded meat all year long and most of what they do eat will be passed as scat so when the cat eats the rat that ate the lead in the heart whatever portion gets into the cat's blood stream will be with him/her until the day they die and the buzzards and rats will end up eating that.</p><p></p><p>The critters we hunt for meat like deer and elk aren't going to be eating the scat or the critters so I don't think there's really any way to prove that it's going to end up in them and eventually then in us when we consume them. If the world fell apart and we were having to scrape by eating whatever protein we can come across certainly rats, coons, coyotes and bobcats would be eaten by those of us hard up enough to do so but until then I'd say we're pretty safe.</p><p></p><p>I just got stuck really on the splatter effect of the really teenie tiny lead bits that were essentially spraying out well beyond the permanent wound channel. That's what then got me to thinking about how we handle blood shot meat and the fact we're probably missing a good bit of the splattered lead that we never really even realized was there.</p><p></p><p>As for the thread, I know there's a big push with both state and federal wildlife agencies to move to a complete ban on lead and with the ever expanding market for non leaded bullets I think we'll see such bans sooner rather than later. </p><p></p><p>Such things usually start in states like CA and NY and of course CA is driving the bandwagon that has the big "No Mo Lead" placard on both sides. I don't know if they have a total lead ban in effect yet but I know that in certain areas and certain species it's already been implemented.</p><p></p><p>When I was young there were some serious studies on lead and waterfowl. They were also seriously flawed studies that were done at "duck clubs" in the east where on these private reserves lead shot had been used for over a century shooting over the same ponds and creeks year after year, after year. Yes, some of the ducks tested had consumed lead shot while rooting around in the grass but I really don't remember any data showing that the birds had enough of a lead problem to make consuming them a serious risk. Lead in the environment oxidizes heavily and quickly and the more oxidized it is the harder it is for it to pass into the blood during digestion.</p><p></p><p>Sorry for being long winded but seeing those videos really got my feeble mind to working overtime.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="WildRose, post: 1245489, member: 30902"] You make some good points of course but as far as I can tell there's just no hard data out there to look at since so very few people will ever be tested for heavy metals poisoning. Prior to the last century before high speed projectiles were being fired using smokeless powders and cartridges I don't think it was nearly as big of a problem even with the lead solids so often used. At low velocities there's very little of the splattering that you can see in some of the slow motion videos of gel testing. Yes I have always known that there must be some lead content in the game we consume that has been shot with lead bullets. In most cases using modern cartridges and powders that splattering of lead for the most part is going to take place inside of the rib cage so if we're not eating the organ meats it's just not a really big deal. As far as the food chain, yes, any leaded meat/organs we leave in the field is likely to end up being eaten by opportunistic predators and scavengers from rats all the way up to big bears. In those cases though very little lead is getting into their blood stream because that which is in large portions will mostly pass through them never being metabolized. The bulk of it will pass with the rest of the waste when Smokey goes squatting in the woods. Does a little of it make it through? Sure, but then they aren't eating leaded meat all year long and most of what they do eat will be passed as scat so when the cat eats the rat that ate the lead in the heart whatever portion gets into the cat's blood stream will be with him/her until the day they die and the buzzards and rats will end up eating that. The critters we hunt for meat like deer and elk aren't going to be eating the scat or the critters so I don't think there's really any way to prove that it's going to end up in them and eventually then in us when we consume them. If the world fell apart and we were having to scrape by eating whatever protein we can come across certainly rats, coons, coyotes and bobcats would be eaten by those of us hard up enough to do so but until then I'd say we're pretty safe. I just got stuck really on the splatter effect of the really teenie tiny lead bits that were essentially spraying out well beyond the permanent wound channel. That's what then got me to thinking about how we handle blood shot meat and the fact we're probably missing a good bit of the splattered lead that we never really even realized was there. As for the thread, I know there's a big push with both state and federal wildlife agencies to move to a complete ban on lead and with the ever expanding market for non leaded bullets I think we'll see such bans sooner rather than later. Such things usually start in states like CA and NY and of course CA is driving the bandwagon that has the big "No Mo Lead" placard on both sides. I don't know if they have a total lead ban in effect yet but I know that in certain areas and certain species it's already been implemented. When I was young there were some serious studies on lead and waterfowl. They were also seriously flawed studies that were done at "duck clubs" in the east where on these private reserves lead shot had been used for over a century shooting over the same ponds and creeks year after year, after year. Yes, some of the ducks tested had consumed lead shot while rooting around in the grass but I really don't remember any data showing that the birds had enough of a lead problem to make consuming them a serious risk. Lead in the environment oxidizes heavily and quickly and the more oxidized it is the harder it is for it to pass into the blood during digestion. Sorry for being long winded but seeing those videos really got my feeble mind to working overtime. [/QUOTE]
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