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Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Reloading
Temperature Learning Experience
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<blockquote data-quote="Darkker" data-source="post: 1211679" data-attributes="member: 81406"><p>You got a lot of problems here, so let's iron out the facts.</p><p>1) Just to be clear, Hodgdon is not a manufacturer, and never had been.</p><p>2) The case has everything to do with it. As you yourself said cases cause burning rate shift, what do you think temp insensitivity controls? It's runaway burning rates. If your chrono is good enough, you can see this with the extremes. Do Adobe shooting, then do some soaking in the chamber before firing. The extremes will over compensate and slow the velocity in a larger fashion than non -extreme, early. </p><p>3) ALL powders have a happy pressure range that they will operate in, in any given cartridge. The "grains" used isn't terribly important, if you know where you are in the pressure range. </p><p>I'm well familiar with progressive burning powders, but you over simplified them. Progressives are the ones that are dangerous for those who don't know what they are doing, because their burning curve changes with pressure.</p><p>Here is a VERY progressive powder we tested a few years ago in the Creed. What is important to know is the curve change, the pressure change. And yet how tiny the velocity change.</p><p></p><p><img src="http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j84/Darkker13/Mobile%20Uploads/Screenshot_2015-11-26-20-21-35_zps0ktikfds.png" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /></p><p><img src="http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j84/Darkker13/Mobile%20Uploads/Screenshot_2014-12-26-20-07-13_zpsrbt4dqfy.png" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /></p><p></p><p>4) No it does not remain stable to temp. Read work done by Dr. Denton Bramwell. Some of his work can still be found over at RSI.</p><p></p><p>5) Also not true, but well done on repeating Hodgdon's sales pitch. That large spread is true with ANY powder, that's why we do "load work-up". But to stay in the same Cool-Aid bowl, look at Hodgdon's very own data about how awesome their extreme powder is. Yes, it is certainly true that in stove cases a powder that isn't in production anymore, in fact has a 150+ fps disadvantage to Extreme marketing voodoo. But look at all of them. Several tests show that the difference isn't statistically different at all, and one "difference" is well under any reloaders standard deviation!! They couldn't measure how close a non extreme powder is. You are welcome to look at the naval warfare testing data. They have much larger temp swings than Hodgy, and most of the "good" testing powder is ball powder from General Dynamics. </p><p>THales in fact called for a JV with general dynamics, to bring better temp stability tech to them. </p><p>In case you are behind, Thales owns ADI, that is where Hodgy bus extreme stuff from currently.</p><p>Or head on over to Western powder and check out their web page. Remember they do a significant amount of pressure testing for Hodgdon. They will also tell you it's case/situational dependant.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Darkker, post: 1211679, member: 81406"] You got a lot of problems here, so let's iron out the facts. 1) Just to be clear, Hodgdon is not a manufacturer, and never had been. 2) The case has everything to do with it. As you yourself said cases cause burning rate shift, what do you think temp insensitivity controls? It's runaway burning rates. If your chrono is good enough, you can see this with the extremes. Do Adobe shooting, then do some soaking in the chamber before firing. The extremes will over compensate and slow the velocity in a larger fashion than non -extreme, early. 3) ALL powders have a happy pressure range that they will operate in, in any given cartridge. The "grains" used isn't terribly important, if you know where you are in the pressure range. I'm well familiar with progressive burning powders, but you over simplified them. Progressives are the ones that are dangerous for those who don't know what they are doing, because their burning curve changes with pressure. Here is a VERY progressive powder we tested a few years ago in the Creed. What is important to know is the curve change, the pressure change. And yet how tiny the velocity change. [IMG]http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j84/Darkker13/Mobile%20Uploads/Screenshot_2015-11-26-20-21-35_zps0ktikfds.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j84/Darkker13/Mobile%20Uploads/Screenshot_2014-12-26-20-07-13_zpsrbt4dqfy.png[/IMG] 4) No it does not remain stable to temp. Read work done by Dr. Denton Bramwell. Some of his work can still be found over at RSI. 5) Also not true, but well done on repeating Hodgdon's sales pitch. That large spread is true with ANY powder, that's why we do "load work-up". But to stay in the same Cool-Aid bowl, look at Hodgdon's very own data about how awesome their extreme powder is. Yes, it is certainly true that in stove cases a powder that isn't in production anymore, in fact has a 150+ fps disadvantage to Extreme marketing voodoo. But look at all of them. Several tests show that the difference isn't statistically different at all, and one "difference" is well under any reloaders standard deviation!! They couldn't measure how close a non extreme powder is. You are welcome to look at the naval warfare testing data. They have much larger temp swings than Hodgy, and most of the "good" testing powder is ball powder from General Dynamics. THales in fact called for a JV with general dynamics, to bring better temp stability tech to them. In case you are behind, Thales owns ADI, that is where Hodgy bus extreme stuff from currently. Or head on over to Western powder and check out their web page. Remember they do a significant amount of pressure testing for Hodgdon. They will also tell you it's case/situational dependant. [/QUOTE]
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