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Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics
Stainless or CM?
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<blockquote data-quote="Trickymissfit" data-source="post: 440734" data-attributes="member: 25383"><p>there's much more the the differences than even that. The SS steel used in the firearms industry is known as a "ferritic" steel. The other is classed as an "austenetic" steel, but there are also a few odd balls that fit neither. A barrel and an action are usually made from a 400 series, and most often 416. It's really a free machine stainless steel that is also known as a high martensetic steel (remember that word). Martensite is not a good thing in the world of granular structure and strength. The three words just don't mix. Many big bore rifles are actually made of chrome moly steel, and then electroless nickled (Weatherby used to do this on all their larger caliber rifles, and may still do). You get all the strength of 4350 as well as the durability of the nickel (a hard surface that will not rust). So what's wrong with a little retained martensite after heat treat? Cracks lead the list! Most are extremely small hairline cracks that are only visible under a microscope, and in the millionths when thinking of size. Guess what? They can grow because the granular structure of 416 is bad at best (just like 440 and 430). In hot weather this is not a serious problem, but leave the rifle out on the porch in -20 weather for a couple days and you get a different story. So why don't Remington or whoever else wants to build the actions out of something like 17PH4 rearc melt stainless steel? Money and most have no idea how to machine it (too cheap to hire somebody to show them how). The stuff is tuff, and when you get into 19 series it gets even harder to work with, and that cheapo Jap lathe or the Chinese clone won't last two weeks on the job. Still you can easilly do it with a wire and a sinker EDM with ease. They also could cut actions and barrels from MAR-10 sold by Baldwin Steel in PA. This is 110% better steel, but roughly six times the price. Will never rust. Shipped in a pretreat form that Rockwells at 30RC. Will take heat as well as 330 and 349 stainless steel (that's close to 50% better than 416). But alas the stuff is tough, but can be machined very well with the correct inserts (diamond or ceramic are prefered). This steel also has a very low retained martensite in it's structure.</p><p> </p><p> So Ok we'll just deep freeze the steel to get rid of the martensite (that's why you deep freeze the stuff). Nope it won't work with stainless steels that are of a 400 series. That's just the nature of the beast. On the otherhand a piece of chrome moly will cryo treat fairly well if it has a lack luster heat treat</p><p> </p><p> What we need is an action made of 52100 Timken steel that is induction hardened in the front third. Then use a 4130 bolt with a heat treat number of about 35RC. Or maybe an action made of Carpenter Air Shock with an RC of about 45 RC. After heat treat simply electroless nickel the reciever and bolt body</p><p>gary</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Trickymissfit, post: 440734, member: 25383"] there's much more the the differences than even that. The SS steel used in the firearms industry is known as a "ferritic" steel. The other is classed as an "austenetic" steel, but there are also a few odd balls that fit neither. A barrel and an action are usually made from a 400 series, and most often 416. It's really a free machine stainless steel that is also known as a high martensetic steel (remember that word). Martensite is not a good thing in the world of granular structure and strength. The three words just don't mix. Many big bore rifles are actually made of chrome moly steel, and then electroless nickled (Weatherby used to do this on all their larger caliber rifles, and may still do). You get all the strength of 4350 as well as the durability of the nickel (a hard surface that will not rust). So what's wrong with a little retained martensite after heat treat? Cracks lead the list! Most are extremely small hairline cracks that are only visible under a microscope, and in the millionths when thinking of size. Guess what? They can grow because the granular structure of 416 is bad at best (just like 440 and 430). In hot weather this is not a serious problem, but leave the rifle out on the porch in -20 weather for a couple days and you get a different story. So why don't Remington or whoever else wants to build the actions out of something like 17PH4 rearc melt stainless steel? Money and most have no idea how to machine it (too cheap to hire somebody to show them how). The stuff is tuff, and when you get into 19 series it gets even harder to work with, and that cheapo Jap lathe or the Chinese clone won't last two weeks on the job. Still you can easilly do it with a wire and a sinker EDM with ease. They also could cut actions and barrels from MAR-10 sold by Baldwin Steel in PA. This is 110% better steel, but roughly six times the price. Will never rust. Shipped in a pretreat form that Rockwells at 30RC. Will take heat as well as 330 and 349 stainless steel (that's close to 50% better than 416). But alas the stuff is tough, but can be machined very well with the correct inserts (diamond or ceramic are prefered). This steel also has a very low retained martensite in it's structure. So Ok we'll just deep freeze the steel to get rid of the martensite (that's why you deep freeze the stuff). Nope it won't work with stainless steels that are of a 400 series. That's just the nature of the beast. On the otherhand a piece of chrome moly will cryo treat fairly well if it has a lack luster heat treat What we need is an action made of 52100 Timken steel that is induction hardened in the front third. Then use a 4130 bolt with a heat treat number of about 35RC. Or maybe an action made of Carpenter Air Shock with an RC of about 45 RC. After heat treat simply electroless nickel the reciever and bolt body gary [/QUOTE]
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