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Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics
should i glass bed my guns?
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<blockquote data-quote="Stocky" data-source="post: 319143" data-attributes="member: 17019"><p>Great questions!</p><p> </p><p><em>1. So if i understand correctly, a heavyweight barrel (bull barrels) will by themselves dampen vibration, so a gun with a heavy barrel, will benifit more by fully bedding the gun ie the action and the barrel so both can be secured to the stock ensuring a repeatable result for a long time.</em></p><p> </p><p>No, just the opposite. A light barrel potentially benefits more from bedding because it vibrates more.</p><p> </p><p><em>2. For firearms with non wood stocks you have to use a metal bedding block, (i have quite a bit of experience with fiberglass i used to make fairings for harley davidsons from glass and carbon fibre ) but i digress, its like nailing jello to the wall trying to epoxy something too fiberglass without scoring the surface enough to allow the chemicals to soak into the fibreglass and have a greater surface area and (bite), even then its unreliable because of the differences in resins and catalysts, some two part glues will react violently(catch on fire) with resin even after it cures, or be unreliable . So that makes sense,</em></p><p> </p><p>Don't have to. In fact we have a new line-up of aluminum bedded laminates arriving very soon. Aluminum is harder and can be machined more accurately than wood so provides a better mating surface. (Ditto epoxy, but it's more work and many guys don't want to do it.) Plus you can torque the screws tighter in an aluminum bed than wood or even raw fiberglass.</p><p> </p><p>Common bedding epoxies like Acraglas don't seem to react to the metal (I have aluminum skim-bedded rifles and years later and they look like the day I bedded them.)</p><p> </p><p><em>3. So Bed wood with epoxy and non wood stocks with metal, because when scoring the glass it will be impossible to do it evenly on both sides and having more bedding on one side than the other, will make one side cure before the other and be bad right?</em></p><p> </p><p>Nope. I typically undercut (i.e. dovetail) areas I am about to add glass in to get a mechanical lock with the epoxy. The thickness of the epoxy we are laying does not affect the curing time appreciably. When laying in more than about 1/2" thick I have seen the dreaded thermal reaction take place but I don't do this on a gunstock. Takes about an ounce of epoxy in a single 'cup' to get it <em>overly</em> thermolytic <strong>-</strong> too hot. I doubt this would affect a wood stock but may damage composites. Best not to do it at all, just don't lay it in too thick!</p><p> </p><p>To get a better understanding consider this: Epoxy chemically 'sticks' to nothing (except itself <em>IF</em> applied while previous epoxy is still tacky), it cures to become an inate polymer (plastic). The adhesion comes from a process called 'keying', a molecular-level process that is identical to inserting a key in a lock. Therefore the more porous the surface the better it keys. As mentioned I add my own 'keyholes' with a Dremel or drill bit.</p><p> </p><p><em>4. Is aluminum the best choice for a block?, most parts on the gun are steel. scince aluminum and steel heat and cool at different rates therefore contract and expand at different rates (any aluminum Anealed or not expands more than steel). wont that affect accuracy when the gun gets hot? then possibly crack the stock? If the bedding should be as snug as possible so it doesnt flop around, wont that leave no room for the aluminum to go? something has to give, are these reasonable concerns or am i just being crazy? thank you for your help, im sorry being im such a pain<img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big Grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" /> but i like to understand things as best as possible, thanks again gun)any expertise would be appreciated and if i got any of this wrong please set me straight. I'd rather be way off on "paper" than in practice im not gonna do this to my .22 mag because its great as it is, my 2- 2 1/2 in groups at 200yds are **** good if i do say so myself, im sure it can do better but as of yet.... i cant</em></p><p> </p><p>I suppose steel would be ideal but it'd weigh too much! Actually, I'd like aluminum better anyway as the harder steel of a receiver tends to settle into it over the years. Any differences due to temperature would be much smaller than normal production tolerances rendering them negligible under normal use.</p><p> </p><p>The debate would be between epoxy and aluminum, one could make a good case for either (or both as mentioned). Either are more accurate than machined wood or even fiberglass lay-up stocks. McMillan (fiberglass stocks) for example, requires their stocks to be epoxy bedded and charges extra to ship one so done. </p><p> </p><p>Versus Bell & Carlson and H-S Precision: they embed CNC machined aluminum so additional bedding is not a requirement or even recomended in most cases. Their goal is a 'drop-in stock' that shoots extremely well out of the box. Plus their bedding blocks extend from the grip to the forend tip, therefore have the additional benefit of reinforcing the stiffness and theoretically the out-of-box accuracy potential.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Stocky, post: 319143, member: 17019"] Great questions! [I]1. So if i understand correctly, a heavyweight barrel (bull barrels) will by themselves dampen vibration, so a gun with a heavy barrel, will benifit more by fully bedding the gun ie the action and the barrel so both can be secured to the stock ensuring a repeatable result for a long time.[/I] No, just the opposite. A light barrel potentially benefits more from bedding because it vibrates more. [I]2. For firearms with non wood stocks you have to use a metal bedding block, (i have quite a bit of experience with fiberglass i used to make fairings for harley davidsons from glass and carbon fibre ) but i digress, its like nailing jello to the wall trying to epoxy something too fiberglass without scoring the surface enough to allow the chemicals to soak into the fibreglass and have a greater surface area and (bite), even then its unreliable because of the differences in resins and catalysts, some two part glues will react violently(catch on fire) with resin even after it cures, or be unreliable . So that makes sense,[/I] Don't have to. In fact we have a new line-up of aluminum bedded laminates arriving very soon. Aluminum is harder and can be machined more accurately than wood so provides a better mating surface. (Ditto epoxy, but it's more work and many guys don't want to do it.) Plus you can torque the screws tighter in an aluminum bed than wood or even raw fiberglass. Common bedding epoxies like Acraglas don't seem to react to the metal (I have aluminum skim-bedded rifles and years later and they look like the day I bedded them.) [I]3. So Bed wood with epoxy and non wood stocks with metal, because when scoring the glass it will be impossible to do it evenly on both sides and having more bedding on one side than the other, will make one side cure before the other and be bad right?[/I] Nope. I typically undercut (i.e. dovetail) areas I am about to add glass in to get a mechanical lock with the epoxy. The thickness of the epoxy we are laying does not affect the curing time appreciably. When laying in more than about 1/2" thick I have seen the dreaded thermal reaction take place but I don't do this on a gunstock. Takes about an ounce of epoxy in a single 'cup' to get it [I]overly[/I] thermolytic [B]-[/B] too hot. I doubt this would affect a wood stock but may damage composites. Best not to do it at all, just don't lay it in too thick! To get a better understanding consider this: Epoxy chemically 'sticks' to nothing (except itself [I]IF[/I] applied while previous epoxy is still tacky), it cures to become an inate polymer (plastic). The adhesion comes from a process called 'keying', a molecular-level process that is identical to inserting a key in a lock. Therefore the more porous the surface the better it keys. As mentioned I add my own 'keyholes' with a Dremel or drill bit. [I]4. Is aluminum the best choice for a block?, most parts on the gun are steel. scince aluminum and steel heat and cool at different rates therefore contract and expand at different rates (any aluminum Anealed or not expands more than steel). wont that affect accuracy when the gun gets hot? then possibly crack the stock? If the bedding should be as snug as possible so it doesnt flop around, wont that leave no room for the aluminum to go? something has to give, are these reasonable concerns or am i just being crazy? thank you for your help, im sorry being im such a pain:D but i like to understand things as best as possible, thanks again gun)any expertise would be appreciated and if i got any of this wrong please set me straight. I'd rather be way off on "paper" than in practice im not gonna do this to my .22 mag because its great as it is, my 2- 2 1/2 in groups at 200yds are **** good if i do say so myself, im sure it can do better but as of yet.... i cant[/I] I suppose steel would be ideal but it'd weigh too much! Actually, I'd like aluminum better anyway as the harder steel of a receiver tends to settle into it over the years. Any differences due to temperature would be much smaller than normal production tolerances rendering them negligible under normal use. The debate would be between epoxy and aluminum, one could make a good case for either (or both as mentioned). Either are more accurate than machined wood or even fiberglass lay-up stocks. McMillan (fiberglass stocks) for example, requires their stocks to be epoxy bedded and charges extra to ship one so done. Versus Bell & Carlson and H-S Precision: they embed CNC machined aluminum so additional bedding is not a requirement or even recomended in most cases. Their goal is a 'drop-in stock' that shoots extremely well out of the box. Plus their bedding blocks extend from the grip to the forend tip, therefore have the additional benefit of reinforcing the stiffness and theoretically the out-of-box accuracy potential. [/QUOTE]
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should i glass bed my guns?
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