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SHERMAN MEGA LINE
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<blockquote data-quote="brittf" data-source="post: 2414406" data-attributes="member: 121792"><p><strong><span style="color: rgb(184, 49, 47)">Lots of details follow, so some may want to skip the post. However, IF you are interested in understanding M5 DBM magazines that properly feed the SAUM based Sherman cartridges (SST, SS, Max) and the WSM based Sherman cartridges (Mega), the post may be of interest.</span></strong></p><p></p><p>I was afraid that might be the MDT magazine you were referring to in your earlier post. I could very well be wrong, but my 'internet and phone research' (not my own experience, because I don't have any) seems to be saying the following:</p><p></p><p>M5 bottom metal for long actions (as originally defined by Badger Ordinance and AICS) come in two lengths: (i) Standard 3.715" magazine outside dimension (typical for 30-06 and 300 Win Mag), and (ii) CIP 3.850" magazine outside dimension (typical for 300 PRC and 338 Lapua).</p><p></p><p>I don't understand the 3.560" length in the MDT magazine referenced. That is neither an AICS standard for magazines nor a Badger Ordinance standard for M5 DBM bottom metal (that I can tell). Those were the two firms who, together, designed and specified the feeding system. Various magazine and bottom metal manufacturers have 'copied' their standards, but they were the originals.</p><p></p><p>So, what specific DBM bottom metal does the 3.560" fit into?</p><p></p><p>To illustrate my concern, consider that I have in my hands two Badger DBM bottom metals (one for 3.715" magazine length and the other for 3.850" magazine length). Both fit into an M5 inlet in my Cerus GT-Hybrid stock since their OUTSIDE mounting dimensions are the same, per the M5 specifications. I also have four metal magazines in my hands: (i) AICS 3.715" length for 300 Win Mag, (ii) AICS 3.850" length for 338 Lapua, (iii) MDT 3.715" length for 30-06, and (iv) MDT 3.715" length for 300 Win Mag.</p><p></p><p>Note that ONLY the AICS 3.850" length for 338 Lapua magazine will seat in the Badger 3.850" CIP M5 DBM bottom metal. The others are too small and do not lock into the bottom metal. For the 28 or 30 or 33 Sherman Magnums (based off the 300 PRC case) you can order the MDT 300 PRC AICS (compatible) magazine, part #105123-BLK and it should feed fine.</p><p></p><p>The AICS 3.715" length for 300 Win Mag, the MDT 3.715" length for 30-06, and the MDT 3.715" length for 300 Win Mag will all fit into the Badger 3.715" standard M5 DBM bottom metal. For the 6.5, 280, 300, and 330 Sherman (based off the 30-06 case) you can order the MDT 30.06 AICS (compatible) magazine in 3.715" length, part #104269-BLK and it should feed fine.</p><p></p><p>The above I know to be true because I have them in my hands. That is why I bought them in the first place (even though they are expensive) - I want to understand compatibility.</p><p></p><p>So, now that brings us back to the MDT 3.560" length for 300 Win Mag that you reference, as well as the MDT 3.560" for 30.06 (also available) - what DBM bottom metal do they fit? Per my above experience, it would appear that I would have to find ANOTHER M5 DBM bottom metal (not one of the two 'standards' that Badger has) specific to this length.</p><p></p><p>On Hawkins' website, it says the have M5 bottom metals "Available in Short Action, Medium (Zermatt/Lone Peak/Stiller), Defiance XM, Long Action, and CIP/CIP+ Length 338 Lapua". I already know that the Long Action refers to 3.715" and the CIP/CIP+ refers to 3.850" (similar to what I have in Badger).</p><p></p><p>So, which one fits the MDT 3.560" magazines? I suspect the Medium (Zermatt/Lone Peak/Stiller) or perhaps the Defiance XM.</p><p></p><p>And, after all is said and done, it will have lips for a 300 Win Mag (which I already have in both AICS and MDT 3.715" magazines). The only advantage that I can see is the 0.155" or 0.290" shorter feed in the magazine. That may be enough, since the feeding problem for SAUM/WSM based cartridges is due to the cartridge coming free from the feed lips BEFORE the nose is sufficiently engaged in the chamber.</p><p></p><p>Do I basically have this right?</p><p></p><p>Sorry for the long post (again), but these kinds of details MAY be helpful for people interested in trying out the Sherman wildcats, if they are as detail-oriented as I am before buying into something...</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="brittf, post: 2414406, member: 121792"] [B][COLOR=rgb(184, 49, 47)]Lots of details follow, so some may want to skip the post. However, IF you are interested in understanding M5 DBM magazines that properly feed the SAUM based Sherman cartridges (SST, SS, Max) and the WSM based Sherman cartridges (Mega), the post may be of interest.[/COLOR][/B] I was afraid that might be the MDT magazine you were referring to in your earlier post. I could very well be wrong, but my 'internet and phone research' (not my own experience, because I don't have any) seems to be saying the following: M5 bottom metal for long actions (as originally defined by Badger Ordinance and AICS) come in two lengths: (i) Standard 3.715" magazine outside dimension (typical for 30-06 and 300 Win Mag), and (ii) CIP 3.850" magazine outside dimension (typical for 300 PRC and 338 Lapua). I don't understand the 3.560" length in the MDT magazine referenced. That is neither an AICS standard for magazines nor a Badger Ordinance standard for M5 DBM bottom metal (that I can tell). Those were the two firms who, together, designed and specified the feeding system. Various magazine and bottom metal manufacturers have 'copied' their standards, but they were the originals. So, what specific DBM bottom metal does the 3.560" fit into? To illustrate my concern, consider that I have in my hands two Badger DBM bottom metals (one for 3.715" magazine length and the other for 3.850" magazine length). Both fit into an M5 inlet in my Cerus GT-Hybrid stock since their OUTSIDE mounting dimensions are the same, per the M5 specifications. I also have four metal magazines in my hands: (i) AICS 3.715" length for 300 Win Mag, (ii) AICS 3.850" length for 338 Lapua, (iii) MDT 3.715" length for 30-06, and (iv) MDT 3.715" length for 300 Win Mag. Note that ONLY the AICS 3.850" length for 338 Lapua magazine will seat in the Badger 3.850" CIP M5 DBM bottom metal. The others are too small and do not lock into the bottom metal. For the 28 or 30 or 33 Sherman Magnums (based off the 300 PRC case) you can order the MDT 300 PRC AICS (compatible) magazine, part #105123-BLK and it should feed fine. The AICS 3.715" length for 300 Win Mag, the MDT 3.715" length for 30-06, and the MDT 3.715" length for 300 Win Mag will all fit into the Badger 3.715" standard M5 DBM bottom metal. For the 6.5, 280, 300, and 330 Sherman (based off the 30-06 case) you can order the MDT 30.06 AICS (compatible) magazine in 3.715" length, part #104269-BLK and it should feed fine. The above I know to be true because I have them in my hands. That is why I bought them in the first place (even though they are expensive) - I want to understand compatibility. So, now that brings us back to the MDT 3.560" length for 300 Win Mag that you reference, as well as the MDT 3.560" for 30.06 (also available) - what DBM bottom metal do they fit? Per my above experience, it would appear that I would have to find ANOTHER M5 DBM bottom metal (not one of the two 'standards' that Badger has) specific to this length. On Hawkins' website, it says the have M5 bottom metals "Available in Short Action, Medium (Zermatt/Lone Peak/Stiller), Defiance XM, Long Action, and CIP/CIP+ Length 338 Lapua". I already know that the Long Action refers to 3.715" and the CIP/CIP+ refers to 3.850" (similar to what I have in Badger). So, which one fits the MDT 3.560" magazines? I suspect the Medium (Zermatt/Lone Peak/Stiller) or perhaps the Defiance XM. And, after all is said and done, it will have lips for a 300 Win Mag (which I already have in both AICS and MDT 3.715" magazines). The only advantage that I can see is the 0.155" or 0.290" shorter feed in the magazine. That may be enough, since the feeding problem for SAUM/WSM based cartridges is due to the cartridge coming free from the feed lips BEFORE the nose is sufficiently engaged in the chamber. Do I basically have this right? Sorry for the long post (again), but these kinds of details MAY be helpful for people interested in trying out the Sherman wildcats, if they are as detail-oriented as I am before buying into something... [/QUOTE]
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