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Savage Team with impressive showing
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<blockquote data-quote="milanuk" data-source="post: 329303" data-attributes="member: 376"><p>From another site...</p><p></p><p>The 12 F/TR rifles we've been using since 2007 started out, and still are, pretty much stock. Not exactly 'bone' stock anymore, but nothing earth-shattering or out of the reach of someone else with one of these rifles.</p><p></p><p>When I received my 12 F/TR in July 2007 it had already been in someone else's possession previously. So far as I know, all that had been done to it up to that point was a skim coat bedding job using Devcon. The barrel was original, the Target AccuTrigger was stock, and it still had that hideous 'lump' of a cheekpiece.</p><p></p><p>Due to a mistake on my part remounting the scope between a match here in the Pacific North West, and the SOA/FCNC that year, I ended up augmenting the cheekpiece with some foam padding and a fair amount of duct tape. I used the same stuff to add a bit to the LOP - which didn't work so well. It would compress easily under recoil, and bop me on my glasses every few shots. Still, I think the results were pretty good regardless <img src="http://www.westcoasttactical.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /></p><p></p><p>At that point if I recall correctly, a couple of the others were running Tubb adjustable buttplates, albeit somewhat modified (lightened) to make weight. One person eventually bedded their rifle, a couple eventually went to the Karsten adjustable saddle cheekpiece that I mounted on mine after 2007, and one person (Darrell Buell) to this day still has not done *anything* to his rifle - no bedding, still uses that factory cheek piece (yuck!), nada. If you've kept track of how we've done as a group, well, Darrell's performance has been a strong testament to the capability of the rifle as it comes from the factory. Prior to Bisley this year I sent my bolt off to Gre-Tan to have the firing pin hole bushed in hopes of buying a little insurance against pierced primers if some water got in the chamber. As it turned out, it was more a matter of 'when', not 'if', and the mod paid for itself several times.</p><p></p><p>Along the way we had an opportunity to have the rifles re-barreled at the factory - several members of the team were going back for a tour, and to take a factory armorer's course. Mine got re-barreled along with the rest, and shipped back (along with the 'old' barrel (#1); made dang sure of that!). Long story made very short, the new barrel (#2) got sent back because of some problems, and a new one sent out (#3). After the 2008 season, we had another talk and I ended up with barrels #4 & #5. After a thorough scrutiny with the borescope, #4 got mounted on the gun. Anyone who thinks that we aren't getting 'factory' barrels is more than welcome to bring your borescope and take a look down the pipe on one of these and draw your own conclusions <img src="http://www.westcoasttactical.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /> </p><p></p><p>Now that I've once again spent a fair amount of time defending that the Savage rifles we've shot up to this point have been basically stock - with some minor modifications made at our own expense - and that the barrels are most certainly standard factory issue... let me add the caveat that what we may be using in the future may *not* be something you can find a direct match for in a catalog. Oh, it will most likely use standard parts (haven't been able to talk them into letting me stick a Rock or Brux barrel on there... yet) but the configuration may be something a little non-standard. The 12 F/TR rifle still shoots like a friggin' hammer when you get it dialed in - as evidenced by the pile o' goodies we brought back from Bisley with them - but F/TR is evolving. Subtly, but it is changing. Whether what we use ends up filtering back into the product line (gee, there's an idea...) remains to be seen.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Still, that doesn't seem to satisfy some folks...</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>One thing to keep in mind is that in this sport... barrels are not a capital investment to keep hanging onto for the sake of being sentimental, frugal or otherwise. They are an expendable commodity - and the old standards/myths of umpteen thousands of rounds through a .308 Win might hold true for a police sniper rifle shooting 100-200yds max or a military issue rifle shooting 'minute of man' don't necessarily hold true on the modern F-Class targets. </p><p></p><p>There was absolutely nothing wrong with the first barrel. The other guys on the team were going back to the factory for an 'armorer' class, and wanted to rebarrel *all* the rifles. I made **** sure I got that one back, as its still 'good to go' in my opinion. Part of me wonders if I shouldn't have just left that barrel on there - it certainly still shot well enough.</p><p></p><p>Barrel #2 was just plain wrong. Yes, they (the other guys on the team) scoped them as they installed them... but they missed one critical spot (in my opinion). Anybody who looked at that barrel (chamber) would probably agree.</p><p></p><p>Barrel #3 shot well, but had some rather noticeable cold-bore zero issues. The first and only gun I've had that it was *really* noticeable. Since we shoot a bit of International Fullbore, where sighters *are* convertible, that was a bit of a problem, more so than it would have been for someone just shooting string-fire ala conventional U.S. Highpower Long Range. Even then, it wasn't unusable. I do believe I set a National Record @ 900yds (148-6X) using that barrel; it just didn't have my full confidence.</p><p></p><p>Barrel #4 & #5 looked to be at least as good as #1; #4 just looked a little better. #5 is unfired, while #4 has a fair stack of bling to its credit. The 1000yd stage of the team match @ this years FCNC I shot a 198-9X... with a called bad shot due to shooter error - which was an 8 (figures). The other 19 shots stayed with in a 10" circle, thanks in large part to the wind coach, but the gun/ammo had to be firing on all cylinders as well, as the saying goes. The conditions weren't entirely benign either... a nearby F-Open team was standing by watching - their highest score was a 188 or so (coaches *do* earn their keep!).</p><p></p><p>As for whether they were scoped... the first one, almost certainly not. The second one was not scoped by the factory; the people installing did out of curiosity but honestly missed a bad chamber. #3 or so they started experimenting with flex-honing the chamber - not my personal choice, but it does seem to help smooth things up a bit. #4 & #5 I asked specifically that they check them (with a scope) for any obvious defects before sending them out. In talking with the engineer(s) a bit... basically what we have gotten up to this point is exactly the same components as anyone else. If you bought a gun and it had problems - and they do crop up - and contacted Savage about it they have an excellent track record for 'making things right'. (whether they would be better served by catching such things before they go out the door is another discussion entirely) If they got the gun back and there was anything questionable... you most likely would have a new barrel on there - from the same stack mine come out of. </p><p></p><p>The biggest convenience I have that most others don't is that being a 'known quantity' as such, the factory will send me a new barrel, rather than having to ship the whole gun back like you would. Thats about it. At that team match I mentioned we had two gentlemen from Ohio that shot with us as a pick-up team - both firing Savage 12 F/TRs. Never met the guys before FCNC 2009, but with some good coaching from Darrell, they were shooting well into the 190s (one as high as 196) @ 1000yds - on the LR-FC. </p><p></p><p>I'm not sure what people's fixation is with insisting that our rifles have some magical pixie dust sprinkled on them. Part of me is getting a little offended, as I work **** hard to shoot as well as I do in F/TR, which is supposed to be a class where the equipment doesn't matter (as much) as the competitors ability to dope the wind and put the shot on target. The other part of me... is just tired of repeating the same stuff over and over - obviously people will believe whatever they want to.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="milanuk, post: 329303, member: 376"] From another site... The 12 F/TR rifles we've been using since 2007 started out, and still are, pretty much stock. Not exactly 'bone' stock anymore, but nothing earth-shattering or out of the reach of someone else with one of these rifles. When I received my 12 F/TR in July 2007 it had already been in someone else's possession previously. So far as I know, all that had been done to it up to that point was a skim coat bedding job using Devcon. The barrel was original, the Target AccuTrigger was stock, and it still had that hideous 'lump' of a cheekpiece. Due to a mistake on my part remounting the scope between a match here in the Pacific North West, and the SOA/FCNC that year, I ended up augmenting the cheekpiece with some foam padding and a fair amount of duct tape. I used the same stuff to add a bit to the LOP - which didn't work so well. It would compress easily under recoil, and bop me on my glasses every few shots. Still, I think the results were pretty good regardless [IMG]http://www.westcoasttactical.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif[/IMG] At that point if I recall correctly, a couple of the others were running Tubb adjustable buttplates, albeit somewhat modified (lightened) to make weight. One person eventually bedded their rifle, a couple eventually went to the Karsten adjustable saddle cheekpiece that I mounted on mine after 2007, and one person (Darrell Buell) to this day still has not done *anything* to his rifle - no bedding, still uses that factory cheek piece (yuck!), nada. If you've kept track of how we've done as a group, well, Darrell's performance has been a strong testament to the capability of the rifle as it comes from the factory. Prior to Bisley this year I sent my bolt off to Gre-Tan to have the firing pin hole bushed in hopes of buying a little insurance against pierced primers if some water got in the chamber. As it turned out, it was more a matter of 'when', not 'if', and the mod paid for itself several times. Along the way we had an opportunity to have the rifles re-barreled at the factory - several members of the team were going back for a tour, and to take a factory armorer's course. Mine got re-barreled along with the rest, and shipped back (along with the 'old' barrel (#1); made dang sure of that!). Long story made very short, the new barrel (#2) got sent back because of some problems, and a new one sent out (#3). After the 2008 season, we had another talk and I ended up with barrels #4 & #5. After a thorough scrutiny with the borescope, #4 got mounted on the gun. Anyone who thinks that we aren't getting 'factory' barrels is more than welcome to bring your borescope and take a look down the pipe on one of these and draw your own conclusions [IMG]http://www.westcoasttactical.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif[/IMG] Now that I've once again spent a fair amount of time defending that the Savage rifles we've shot up to this point have been basically stock - with some minor modifications made at our own expense - and that the barrels are most certainly standard factory issue... let me add the caveat that what we may be using in the future may *not* be something you can find a direct match for in a catalog. Oh, it will most likely use standard parts (haven't been able to talk them into letting me stick a Rock or Brux barrel on there... yet) but the configuration may be something a little non-standard. The 12 F/TR rifle still shoots like a friggin' hammer when you get it dialed in - as evidenced by the pile o' goodies we brought back from Bisley with them - but F/TR is evolving. Subtly, but it is changing. Whether what we use ends up filtering back into the product line (gee, there's an idea...) remains to be seen. Still, that doesn't seem to satisfy some folks... One thing to keep in mind is that in this sport... barrels are not a capital investment to keep hanging onto for the sake of being sentimental, frugal or otherwise. They are an expendable commodity - and the old standards/myths of umpteen thousands of rounds through a .308 Win might hold true for a police sniper rifle shooting 100-200yds max or a military issue rifle shooting 'minute of man' don't necessarily hold true on the modern F-Class targets. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the first barrel. The other guys on the team were going back to the factory for an 'armorer' class, and wanted to rebarrel *all* the rifles. I made **** sure I got that one back, as its still 'good to go' in my opinion. Part of me wonders if I shouldn't have just left that barrel on there - it certainly still shot well enough. Barrel #2 was just plain wrong. Yes, they (the other guys on the team) scoped them as they installed them... but they missed one critical spot (in my opinion). Anybody who looked at that barrel (chamber) would probably agree. Barrel #3 shot well, but had some rather noticeable cold-bore zero issues. The first and only gun I've had that it was *really* noticeable. Since we shoot a bit of International Fullbore, where sighters *are* convertible, that was a bit of a problem, more so than it would have been for someone just shooting string-fire ala conventional U.S. Highpower Long Range. Even then, it wasn't unusable. I do believe I set a National Record @ 900yds (148-6X) using that barrel; it just didn't have my full confidence. Barrel #4 & #5 looked to be at least as good as #1; #4 just looked a little better. #5 is unfired, while #4 has a fair stack of bling to its credit. The 1000yd stage of the team match @ this years FCNC I shot a 198-9X... with a called bad shot due to shooter error - which was an 8 (figures). The other 19 shots stayed with in a 10" circle, thanks in large part to the wind coach, but the gun/ammo had to be firing on all cylinders as well, as the saying goes. The conditions weren't entirely benign either... a nearby F-Open team was standing by watching - their highest score was a 188 or so (coaches *do* earn their keep!). As for whether they were scoped... the first one, almost certainly not. The second one was not scoped by the factory; the people installing did out of curiosity but honestly missed a bad chamber. #3 or so they started experimenting with flex-honing the chamber - not my personal choice, but it does seem to help smooth things up a bit. #4 & #5 I asked specifically that they check them (with a scope) for any obvious defects before sending them out. In talking with the engineer(s) a bit... basically what we have gotten up to this point is exactly the same components as anyone else. If you bought a gun and it had problems - and they do crop up - and contacted Savage about it they have an excellent track record for 'making things right'. (whether they would be better served by catching such things before they go out the door is another discussion entirely) If they got the gun back and there was anything questionable... you most likely would have a new barrel on there - from the same stack mine come out of. The biggest convenience I have that most others don't is that being a 'known quantity' as such, the factory will send me a new barrel, rather than having to ship the whole gun back like you would. Thats about it. At that team match I mentioned we had two gentlemen from Ohio that shot with us as a pick-up team - both firing Savage 12 F/TRs. Never met the guys before FCNC 2009, but with some good coaching from Darrell, they were shooting well into the 190s (one as high as 196) @ 1000yds - on the LR-FC. I'm not sure what people's fixation is with insisting that our rifles have some magical pixie dust sprinkled on them. Part of me is getting a little offended, as I work **** hard to shoot as well as I do in F/TR, which is supposed to be a class where the equipment doesn't matter (as much) as the competitors ability to dope the wind and put the shot on target. The other part of me... is just tired of repeating the same stuff over and over - obviously people will believe whatever they want to. [/QUOTE]
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