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Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Reloading
Resizing with full length or neck sizing die?
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<blockquote data-quote="Mikecr" data-source="post: 427587" data-attributes="member: 1521"><p>I use Redding body dies honed by JLC</p><p> </p><p></p><p>I never said my dies don't touch the bodies. They squish & confine the bodies within springback, leaving zero body sizing, while containing the bump action.</p><p> </p><p> I use a couple gizzys I've bought(Tubbs), or had made with barrel finishing. If not for that, I'd make something myself. It is only a relative measurement(like bullet seating measurements) and nothing difficult about it, as confirmed by chambering feel on each one. It typically takes 4-5 firings before my brass has settled into 0-HS. From there, I'm forced to bump a thou everytime.</p><p> </p><p> Great. I just happen to prefer Wilson NS and seating dies.</p><p> </p><p></p><p>I don't think I said anything about work hardening a neck. My implication of FL tension variance relates to uncontrolled tension beyond bullet bearing, affecting desired tension on the bearing. Tension from neck sizing grows as it nears the shoulder junction. I suggest 'uncontrolled', because there is no way to adjust it out seperately(so why put it there). As far as work hardening, it is managed through tight fit and minimal neck sizing. Nothing new, no claims of mystical discovery..</p><p>My loadcell is built into my Sinclair expander die and I measure using their hardened turning mandrel. My adjustment amounts to seperate thickness spacers used with my Wilson NS die. Sometimes I go back & forth between em a couple times to get a baseline match. When it gets to be any kind of pain, I'll stress relieve the necks with a lead dip.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>- I never said anything about stopping springback. Springback is our friend. I stay below YIELD(exceeding springback), and with cartridges like a 6br or 6xc, this can be measured at ~56kpsi(per QL predictions). Most cartridges SAMMI max at 55kpsi, some up at 65kpsi. But there is absolutely no reason for me to go that high and I don't. When I load develop, I measure web growth and see it settle into springback range of the chamber. As I continue upward, I'll see .0005 growth from that point and stop. That is 'Mikecr Max'. I run it with QL and log it for future load what-ifs.</p><p>What people do based on what people do, is their problem.</p><p>- And I don't shoot a 6.5wsm...</p><p> </p><p></p><p>Well, have they considered the costs of extreme pressure loads? There is a price for everything.</p><p>I don't think I would be surprised, it's pretty simple really.</p><p> </p><p></p><p>It can't be done with every cartridge & load. I can do it with body taper <15thou/inch, shoulder angles +30degs, neck clearance <2thou and within Mikecr Max pressures. This is common territory for varmint cartidges. </p><p>Now my 223 cases will not last so long without trimming(looks like ~13 reloads), and perhaps I need to explore different sizing, maybe even FL, or live with the life provided by my methods, or drop the cartridge. It's a poor design.</p><p>So you got me there. And I'll concede that to be point blank competitive, high pressures are needed, and that FL sizing with this right from the git-go makes sense.</p><p>But that doesn't mean FL sizing always makes sense. </p><p></p><p>If we're bantering extremes at both ends of a scale, it's because there is rarely a single 'right' approach that applies across the board. Many are right between us.</p><p>Great thread & discussion!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mikecr, post: 427587, member: 1521"] I use Redding body dies honed by JLC I never said my dies don't touch the bodies. They squish & confine the bodies within springback, leaving zero body sizing, while containing the bump action. I use a couple gizzys I've bought(Tubbs), or had made with barrel finishing. If not for that, I'd make something myself. It is only a relative measurement(like bullet seating measurements) and nothing difficult about it, as confirmed by chambering feel on each one. It typically takes 4-5 firings before my brass has settled into 0-HS. From there, I'm forced to bump a thou everytime. Great. I just happen to prefer Wilson NS and seating dies. I don't think I said anything about work hardening a neck. My implication of FL tension variance relates to uncontrolled tension beyond bullet bearing, affecting desired tension on the bearing. Tension from neck sizing grows as it nears the shoulder junction. I suggest 'uncontrolled', because there is no way to adjust it out seperately(so why put it there). As far as work hardening, it is managed through tight fit and minimal neck sizing. Nothing new, no claims of mystical discovery.. My loadcell is built into my Sinclair expander die and I measure using their hardened turning mandrel. My adjustment amounts to seperate thickness spacers used with my Wilson NS die. Sometimes I go back & forth between em a couple times to get a baseline match. When it gets to be any kind of pain, I'll stress relieve the necks with a lead dip. - I never said anything about stopping springback. Springback is our friend. I stay below YIELD(exceeding springback), and with cartridges like a 6br or 6xc, this can be measured at ~56kpsi(per QL predictions). Most cartridges SAMMI max at 55kpsi, some up at 65kpsi. But there is absolutely no reason for me to go that high and I don't. When I load develop, I measure web growth and see it settle into springback range of the chamber. As I continue upward, I'll see .0005 growth from that point and stop. That is 'Mikecr Max'. I run it with QL and log it for future load what-ifs. What people do based on what people do, is their problem. - And I don't shoot a 6.5wsm... Well, have they considered the costs of extreme pressure loads? There is a price for everything. I don't think I would be surprised, it's pretty simple really. It can't be done with every cartridge & load. I can do it with body taper <15thou/inch, shoulder angles +30degs, neck clearance <2thou and within Mikecr Max pressures. This is common territory for varmint cartidges. Now my 223 cases will not last so long without trimming(looks like ~13 reloads), and perhaps I need to explore different sizing, maybe even FL, or live with the life provided by my methods, or drop the cartridge. It's a poor design. So you got me there. And I'll concede that to be point blank competitive, high pressures are needed, and that FL sizing with this right from the git-go makes sense. But that doesn't mean FL sizing always makes sense. If we're bantering extremes at both ends of a scale, it's because there is rarely a single 'right' approach that applies across the board. Many are right between us. Great thread & discussion! [/QUOTE]
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Resizing with full length or neck sizing die?
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