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Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Reloading
Resizing with full length or neck sizing die?
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<blockquote data-quote="Mikecr" data-source="post: 427413" data-attributes="member: 1521"><p>In contrast</p><p>My 6.5wssm has over 30 reloads without ever FL sizing or trimming or annealing. Each case is exactly where they were set by the second fireforming. Same length, same web dia, same neck tension(and I measure it -everytime), very low TIR, and matching in H20 capacity.</p><p>They are not lengthening, or work hardening, because I DO NOT FL size. I DO NOT size the entire necks. I DO NOT size the bodies(which causes lengthening).</p><p>I don't have to.</p><p></p><p>I partial NS, mandrel expand necks, and bump shoulders. </p><p>That's it. It's more than I would have to do. And it's not FL sizing.</p><p>My qualifiers:</p><p>I cull out thickness variance before initial preps,, turn necks for proper chamber fit,, my bump dies are custom,, chambers are tight,, and I keep my loads at or below SAAMI max(or the point where fireformed brass yields beyond springback, as seen by .0005 further growth .200 from heads). </p><p></p><p>For many cartridges and reloading needs, you have it backwards BH. </p><p>-It's FL sizing that rolls brass from low in the body all the way to the case mouths, causing stress, lengthening, and donuts. I don't have dounts, my brass has not been moved one bit.</p><p>-It's FL sizing the entire necks(often beyond bullet bearing), causing greater tension variance, removing a valuable tuning adjustment, and increasing runout. I measure and set matching tension on each reload with a loadcell, by varying sizing length and/or cycling expansion. </p><p>-It's FL sizing that brings the devil out of brass(stress induced springback variance), causing increasing runout with every single cycle. My runout increases very little, because I don't move brass, and each rational firing cycles it only within springback.</p><p>-It's FL sizing that causes H20 capacity to climb over reloading cycles, as it's trimmed it away.</p><p>Did I mention that I don't have to trim?</p><p></p><p>Does Tony account for these? Does he match H20 capacities, or qualify ogive radius, bearing & meplats, or even weigh powder? Does he shoot something other than a 6PPC, or 30BR, at extreme pressures and close ranges? Has he ever needed to hit his mark -without sighters? Anyway...</p><p>My extreme has qualifiers, and I'm aware of FL sizing qualifiers and needs. </p><p>FL sizing is required for cases exposed to high pressures, and/or poorly designed with high body taper, high length to width, and low shoulder angles.</p><p>Barring these factors, it's my contention that FL sizing is never needed and detrimental to LR accuracy.</p><p>I think it's possible Tom could have done even better. But not with any of my guns, and off a bipod in the field. Was his 1.4" ACCURACY(0.134moa), or PRECISION? What does he do consistently?</p><p></p><p>This isn't blasphemy, but a necessary review of context.</p><p>I don't compete, but learned from David Tubb not to rely on competitive abstracts or anomalies for basis. I think this can be reasoned through to a truth, which will stand as passing all tests.</p><p>We can't just declare that so&so did this and was successful, or so&so didn't with the same results.</p><p>This is not a path to any real understanding.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mikecr, post: 427413, member: 1521"] In contrast My 6.5wssm has over 30 reloads without ever FL sizing or trimming or annealing. Each case is exactly where they were set by the second fireforming. Same length, same web dia, same neck tension(and I measure it -everytime), very low TIR, and matching in H20 capacity. They are not lengthening, or work hardening, because I DO NOT FL size. I DO NOT size the entire necks. I DO NOT size the bodies(which causes lengthening). I don't have to. I partial NS, mandrel expand necks, and bump shoulders. That's it. It's more than I would have to do. And it's not FL sizing. My qualifiers: I cull out thickness variance before initial preps,, turn necks for proper chamber fit,, my bump dies are custom,, chambers are tight,, and I keep my loads at or below SAAMI max(or the point where fireformed brass yields beyond springback, as seen by .0005 further growth .200 from heads). For many cartridges and reloading needs, you have it backwards BH. -It's FL sizing that rolls brass from low in the body all the way to the case mouths, causing stress, lengthening, and donuts. I don't have dounts, my brass has not been moved one bit. -It's FL sizing the entire necks(often beyond bullet bearing), causing greater tension variance, removing a valuable tuning adjustment, and increasing runout. I measure and set matching tension on each reload with a loadcell, by varying sizing length and/or cycling expansion. -It's FL sizing that brings the devil out of brass(stress induced springback variance), causing increasing runout with every single cycle. My runout increases very little, because I don't move brass, and each rational firing cycles it only within springback. -It's FL sizing that causes H20 capacity to climb over reloading cycles, as it's trimmed it away. Did I mention that I don't have to trim? Does Tony account for these? Does he match H20 capacities, or qualify ogive radius, bearing & meplats, or even weigh powder? Does he shoot something other than a 6PPC, or 30BR, at extreme pressures and close ranges? Has he ever needed to hit his mark -without sighters? Anyway... My extreme has qualifiers, and I'm aware of FL sizing qualifiers and needs. FL sizing is required for cases exposed to high pressures, and/or poorly designed with high body taper, high length to width, and low shoulder angles. Barring these factors, it's my contention that FL sizing is never needed and detrimental to LR accuracy. I think it's possible Tom could have done even better. But not with any of my guns, and off a bipod in the field. Was his 1.4" ACCURACY(0.134moa), or PRECISION? What does he do consistently? This isn't blasphemy, but a necessary review of context. I don't compete, but learned from David Tubb not to rely on competitive abstracts or anomalies for basis. I think this can be reasoned through to a truth, which will stand as passing all tests. We can't just declare that so&so did this and was successful, or so&so didn't with the same results. This is not a path to any real understanding. [/QUOTE]
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Resizing with full length or neck sizing die?
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