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Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Long Range Scopes and Other Optics
Range Finders . . .
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<blockquote data-quote="catorres1" data-source="post: 1380507" data-attributes="member: 80699"><p>Country Bumpkin,</p><p></p><p>Following a trip to Colorado and doing some shooting there, where I was able to test my Leica 1600b vs a Sig 2k, I have been doing some research on what I want for a solution going forward. </p><p></p><p>On paper, the Leica is awesome. The glass is so clear and crisp that I actually use it as an observation device before I resort to my binos. Ranging, I have hit over 1700 yards on it, and consistently can range trees out past 1600 (depending on conditions, of course). Theoretically, you can range at any altitude, temperature and angle and have it provide a perfect solution for you to shoot to, despite the changing conditions. </p><p>In reality, as Barrelnut mentioned, it did not quite work out that way. Using a sig and the Leica, ranging out to 600 or so the ballistics from the Leica worked out fine for me. But as the range increased, the numbers started to diverge, so that by the time I got to 875, the Leica had me off by 1 MOA, whereas the Sig's call was right on the money. Beyond that, I don't know how much it would be off because the 1600b only gives an adjusted distance out to 875.</p><p>The problem, at least, is the curves as BN mentioned. They give you 12, and 3 choices in zero distance. If you are not fully aligned, you introduce error into the equation, which grows until you are quite off. </p><p>I called an acquaintance at Leica about this, and he told me you should be no more than about .5 MOA off or so, so there may be a problem with my individual unit. We did verify the discrepency with many shots over different ranges, however, so it's definitely something with the unit. My ballistics fall almost perfectly between two curves, so the error is maximized. We will see how they might solve this problem for me, I am hoping there is something they will do, we'll see, it is still being considered.</p><p></p><p>That said, the new 2700 does allow you to input a card with your curve loaded. Theoretically, that should fix the problem, but I can't say for sure. If it does, for the money, it should be pretty nice, depending on how you use it and how far you shoot. They have also extended the distance where the adjusted shoot to is displayed, which is now 1000 yards, but it is not unlimited and it does not consider things that start to matter at longer distance, like coriolis etc. I think it runs 899.</p><p></p><p>I fell into an amazing deal on a Kestrel Elite when I got home, so I bought it, and I plan to pair it with the RF for longer solutions. Not sure what I will do on the RF...would like to stay with Leica as the glass is so nice, and that's important for how I use it. But we'll see what they do, I may need to get a Sig. I am still trying to work out a workflow...timing different ways of doing it. </p><p></p><p>Starting from scratch and if money was no object...there is the Sig 2400 out there. It runs 1399, but I have just seen 2 on sale for around 1150 or 1200 on another board. It uses AB's solutions, just like the Kestrel Elite, so I don't think you can do any better. All of it's unlimited range shooting solutions include coriolis, spin drift, Aero jump etc., all correlated to your shoot direction and latitude. The Leica does not consider these, you have to pair with a Kestrel to get that. I do not like the 2400 at all for a wind solution, but if you are the kind of guy that prefers to enter a basic windcall yourself and adjust on the fly yourself, it should be really nice because it all comes up right there in front of you. Glass is not at all like the Leica from those I have examined, but most people don't care about that.</p><p></p><p>One other thing, you mentioned a range card...on the Kestrel Elite, it has that function...really cool....digital range card that gives you all the solutions you could want, all considered and available to you. So far, I am testing just ranging with the Leica and then viewing the range card for my solution. If there is an angle involved, I would have to input that first...but it's really fast....timed it and from range to finish...about 15 seconds to looking at my solution on the Kestrel. But in truth...the 2400 is still faster if you can afford it....the Kestrel and the 2700 is at least as much unless you find a deal.</p><p></p><p>HTH!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="catorres1, post: 1380507, member: 80699"] Country Bumpkin, Following a trip to Colorado and doing some shooting there, where I was able to test my Leica 1600b vs a Sig 2k, I have been doing some research on what I want for a solution going forward. On paper, the Leica is awesome. The glass is so clear and crisp that I actually use it as an observation device before I resort to my binos. Ranging, I have hit over 1700 yards on it, and consistently can range trees out past 1600 (depending on conditions, of course). Theoretically, you can range at any altitude, temperature and angle and have it provide a perfect solution for you to shoot to, despite the changing conditions. In reality, as Barrelnut mentioned, it did not quite work out that way. Using a sig and the Leica, ranging out to 600 or so the ballistics from the Leica worked out fine for me. But as the range increased, the numbers started to diverge, so that by the time I got to 875, the Leica had me off by 1 MOA, whereas the Sig's call was right on the money. Beyond that, I don't know how much it would be off because the 1600b only gives an adjusted distance out to 875. The problem, at least, is the curves as BN mentioned. They give you 12, and 3 choices in zero distance. If you are not fully aligned, you introduce error into the equation, which grows until you are quite off. I called an acquaintance at Leica about this, and he told me you should be no more than about .5 MOA off or so, so there may be a problem with my individual unit. We did verify the discrepency with many shots over different ranges, however, so it's definitely something with the unit. My ballistics fall almost perfectly between two curves, so the error is maximized. We will see how they might solve this problem for me, I am hoping there is something they will do, we'll see, it is still being considered. That said, the new 2700 does allow you to input a card with your curve loaded. Theoretically, that should fix the problem, but I can't say for sure. If it does, for the money, it should be pretty nice, depending on how you use it and how far you shoot. They have also extended the distance where the adjusted shoot to is displayed, which is now 1000 yards, but it is not unlimited and it does not consider things that start to matter at longer distance, like coriolis etc. I think it runs 899. I fell into an amazing deal on a Kestrel Elite when I got home, so I bought it, and I plan to pair it with the RF for longer solutions. Not sure what I will do on the RF...would like to stay with Leica as the glass is so nice, and that's important for how I use it. But we'll see what they do, I may need to get a Sig. I am still trying to work out a workflow...timing different ways of doing it. Starting from scratch and if money was no object...there is the Sig 2400 out there. It runs 1399, but I have just seen 2 on sale for around 1150 or 1200 on another board. It uses AB's solutions, just like the Kestrel Elite, so I don't think you can do any better. All of it's unlimited range shooting solutions include coriolis, spin drift, Aero jump etc., all correlated to your shoot direction and latitude. The Leica does not consider these, you have to pair with a Kestrel to get that. I do not like the 2400 at all for a wind solution, but if you are the kind of guy that prefers to enter a basic windcall yourself and adjust on the fly yourself, it should be really nice because it all comes up right there in front of you. Glass is not at all like the Leica from those I have examined, but most people don't care about that. One other thing, you mentioned a range card...on the Kestrel Elite, it has that function...really cool....digital range card that gives you all the solutions you could want, all considered and available to you. So far, I am testing just ranging with the Leica and then viewing the range card for my solution. If there is an angle involved, I would have to input that first...but it's really fast....timed it and from range to finish...about 15 seconds to looking at my solution on the Kestrel. But in truth...the 2400 is still faster if you can afford it....the Kestrel and the 2700 is at least as much unless you find a deal. HTH! [/QUOTE]
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