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Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics
Pushing a .338 as fast as possible
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<blockquote data-quote="MontanaMarine" data-source="post: 23069" data-attributes="member: 268"><p>Thanks for the feedback Jerry.</p><p></p><p> Yes, I have studied the subsonic ballistics of the 300gr MK. They are impressive.</p><p></p><p> I guess in my mind, the change in point of impact at 2890 yards can change so dramatically by a minor wind change, or even a 20fps variation in MV, or the animal moving during the time of flight(3+ seconds?)that the probability of putting the first one into an 18" target at over 1.6 miles seems pretty low. Even after firing a "registration" (pardon my artillery terminology) on a point nearby. </p><p></p><p> But you are very correct in suggesting I do not have experience in this type of shooting. But, as an artillery FO with over 23 years service, I believe I can appreciate it more than most.</p><p></p><p> This type of shot is almost akin to shooting artillery. We use detailed meteorological data as well. Even the rotation of the earth during TOF is calculated. With perfect Met data(we fly a balloon to get conditions aloft, our max ord. can be several thousand feet), surveyed gun positiion, surveyed target location, and having registered on a known point, our first round rarely hits within 20 meters of a target even at a relatively close 10,000 meters. Granted, a 155mm howitzer is not as precise a weapon as LR heavy rifles.</p><p></p><p>I do not doubt the elk was killed at over 1.6 miles. Boyd did state the elk was killed by a double shoulder shot. (But an exit hole the size of a volleyball by a projo traveling under 1000 fps seems like a bit of embellishment.) I am curious how many shots were fired at the elk, how many bullets hit the elk, and where they hit the elk, by the time he was dead. I also am curious if the elk was a penned game farm elk, or a free roaming critter on public land.</p><p></p><p> I am interested and fascinated in this extreme LR shooting. I personally could not pull the trigger on a big game animal at that distance with a clear conscience though. Under the best of conditions, the chances of a first round humane kill are too unlikely for me.</p><p></p><p> Reading everything that Warren Jensen has related on the .408 Chey-Tac thread only reinforces my opinion on this.</p><p></p><p>Thanks again, MM</p><p></p><p>[ 11-08-2002: Message edited by: MontanaMarine ]</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="MontanaMarine, post: 23069, member: 268"] Thanks for the feedback Jerry. Yes, I have studied the subsonic ballistics of the 300gr MK. They are impressive. I guess in my mind, the change in point of impact at 2890 yards can change so dramatically by a minor wind change, or even a 20fps variation in MV, or the animal moving during the time of flight(3+ seconds?)that the probability of putting the first one into an 18" target at over 1.6 miles seems pretty low. Even after firing a "registration" (pardon my artillery terminology) on a point nearby. But you are very correct in suggesting I do not have experience in this type of shooting. But, as an artillery FO with over 23 years service, I believe I can appreciate it more than most. This type of shot is almost akin to shooting artillery. We use detailed meteorological data as well. Even the rotation of the earth during TOF is calculated. With perfect Met data(we fly a balloon to get conditions aloft, our max ord. can be several thousand feet), surveyed gun positiion, surveyed target location, and having registered on a known point, our first round rarely hits within 20 meters of a target even at a relatively close 10,000 meters. Granted, a 155mm howitzer is not as precise a weapon as LR heavy rifles. I do not doubt the elk was killed at over 1.6 miles. Boyd did state the elk was killed by a double shoulder shot. (But an exit hole the size of a volleyball by a projo traveling under 1000 fps seems like a bit of embellishment.) I am curious how many shots were fired at the elk, how many bullets hit the elk, and where they hit the elk, by the time he was dead. I also am curious if the elk was a penned game farm elk, or a free roaming critter on public land. I am interested and fascinated in this extreme LR shooting. I personally could not pull the trigger on a big game animal at that distance with a clear conscience though. Under the best of conditions, the chances of a first round humane kill are too unlikely for me. Reading everything that Warren Jensen has related on the .408 Chey-Tac thread only reinforces my opinion on this. Thanks again, MM [ 11-08-2002: Message edited by: MontanaMarine ] [/QUOTE]
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