new vs old

[splattermatic]

what did we kill animals with years ago ?
sierra sbt's, nosler pt's, remmy corelokt's, etc...

i understand modern technology and all, but why must we spend soooo much money on premium bullets these days, to kill the same game we did years ago ?

i am down to a few barnes tsx's, and wanted to buy more.
started looking around and the **** things are going for almost a buck a bullet !!!

screw that, they can keep em, i can't see punching more holes in paper than game, at that price.

i had some old nosler pt's on the shelf, 180 gr., .30 cal's...
so i loaded up some this a.m., and went shooting....
put em over 98.0 gr's of reldr 25, set off the rifling .030, in my 300 rum.
clean barrel, and the first 4 shots with this load went into a 1 inch vertical by 1/2 hor., group, at just over 3300 fps !
a little tweeking and i think it'll work just fine for whatever i wanna kill with it.

and btw,

www.shooterproshop.com sells nosler factory seconds for 15 bucks a box of 50.
ordered 3 boxes and 1 of .338 250's just a bit ago.
200 bullets with shipping for @ 80 bucks...

anyone else tired of spending the big bucks for these just gotta have premium bullets ??

sure the bc's, may not be the "best" for the partitions, nor a bt, but they have a better bc than a tsx, and there's not much a difference against a sieera gameking bt.
both sighted in at 300 yards, same 3300 fps, same everything, and the drop at 800 yards is just 2.7 inches different !
i shake more than that !!

is there a reason, the rage is these new bullets ??

didn't we kill game just as dead with the old ones ??
that are cheaper ??

okay, rant off.....

have a great day all, going home in a bit to load some more..

 

[4ked Horn]

You pays yer money and you takes yer chances.

We are always pushing for better. What "better means to one hunter may not mean the same to another.

I am working on a load for some wildcat bullets that will cost $52/100 (shipping included) simply because some test wildcats cut my groups at 300 yards in half. That just doubled my personal confidence distance on shots on game. I am also paying about twice what I was paying for the bullets I was previously using. Is that worth it to me? Hell yes. I have still not found a good load with these particular wildcats but I still consider the potential to double my effective distance a goal worth persuing, especially because I did not have to change my reloading process one little bit. I'll gladly spend more for these bullets.

On the other hand when I do the math on shotgun loads for ducks even if I was guaranteed one duck for each shell the expensive exotic loads they are still more expensive than shooting 4 rounds to get 1 duck using steel. And that is if you get your leads right and the patterns are perfect which mine ain't so I might still get 1 duck for every 2 or 3 shots. There is no possible way I would shoot bismuth or tungston or depleted uranium shot shells unless they were the same cost as steel(which sucks compared with good ol' lead).

 

[Ridge Runner]

I was at Gander mountain this past week, was thinking about how high they're hornady bullets were, as I walked to the cashier, I hasteily grabbed a 10 box of fed 3.5" 2.25 oz #5's, when the cashier rang them up they were 74.99 plus tax, HUH? what the ? don't think so, I don't hate turkeys bad enough to spend 7.50 per shell on them, I didn't have my glasses so I still don't know what they were loaded with but I'll stick to copper coated premieums.
JS

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

IMO, for a good all around LR bullet thats cheap, accurate, fairly high BC is still the good old Nosler BT. I dont care what anybody says, these bullets flat out kill deer, elk, and bears. Sierra gamekings are great for the price as well.

I agree with you, spending $1 a bullet is about as dumb as you can get. The animal dont know the difference, the only difference we know is what the ballistic tables say...

To be completely honest, I wont even buy paritions because I think there to expensive. Call me cheap, call me whatever, but when you shoot hundreds of rounds a year, it adds up. About the upper limit I"ll buy is the Nosler AB. I wont buy barnes anything anymore, there worthless IMO. Inconsistent, exaggerated BC"s, dont expand to well at LR and look at the price. But they have there place for close range shots I guess. It depends a lot on where and how you hunt I guess. For me, my favorite bullet is still the Nosler NBT. They've killed plenty of deer, elk and black bears for my family and friends with no troubles, from 50-800 yards.

 

[Coyboy]

I agree with you remmy, I have hunted with b-tips for years and can honestly say I never had a bullet "fail".
I stick with the heavier for caliber b-tips. 140-150gr in the 7mm. Although I loaded up a reduced load in my cousins 280 with the 120 b-tip. His son used it to kill a large 10 point at close range, one shot through lungs ran about 50 yards. The 140 b-tip in my 280 has always been a good combination.
In the 30 cal I use the 180 grain, for years this was my go to load in a rem 700 300 win mag. I killed whitetail from 30 to 423 yards. Only one needed a second bullet.(but that was my fault)
I tried Barnes in a 264 win mag. I ended up with dead deer but holes out were the same as holes in. I think the pedals stripped off more often than not.

Now my bullets of choice are. A-max, Sierra mk and gamekings, Nos b-tips, and AB. I stick with the heavier for calibur bullets and leave the light weights for varmits

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

Yep, stick with the 140-150g in 7mm for deer and you'll be ok. I've even seen quite a few guys use the 150g for elk. I wouldn't feel undergunned if thats all I had.

Now to the 180g BT out of the 300 Win. I load this particular combo for 4 different guys and they love it. They shoot everything from deer, elk, black bears and they have always got an exit, even on elk and bears. One guy shot a nice 5x5 bull elk at 750 yards, hit it twice and he was down for the count. Same guy this year wacked his spike at 525 yards and I actually found the bullet in the ofside hide, after going through the shoulders. Pretty good performance if you ask me. For a 300 Win, I dont think you can beat the 180g BT for the price/performance. My uncles shot at least 4-5 spikes with his combo from 100-500 yards and they've all hit the dirt pretty hard, with some pretty good exits as well.

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

Forgot to mention that I really like the 115g NBT out of my 25-06. I"ve killed everythign from pdogs to black bears with that bullet. I"ve killed deer out to 600 yards, 2 black bears at 400+, and I've never not once had one stay inside a deer, that tells me something even though I wack them in the shoulder 90% of the time. There tougher then most people think. Most peoples problem is they use the light or medium weight btips, then they wack a buck at 100 yards and wonder why it ran off. Operator error, not bullet error. I've had more 1 shot drops with NBT's then any other bullet, thats for dang sure.

 

[wapiti13]

Splattermatic, Don't know where you are buying TSX, but go to Midway or Cabela and they are cheaper than that. Unfortunately, bullets are going over the moon with metal costs. Luckily the bullet is the cheapest part of the hunt. To cover another question, several things have changed over the years. WE are pushing bullets at higher velocities than before and the closer to 3,000 fps and above really changes terminal ballistics at impact. Also, manufactuers have changed specs over the years. A good example is the old Remington CoreLokt. Somebody at the factory decided to thin the jacket several years ago. Now the bullet does not perform as well as it used to. THe Remington Ultra Bonded was designed to correct the problem and compete in the space age bullet market. Choices!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

[blackco]

My opinion and 25 cents won't buy you a cup of coffee, but here it is anyways...

Over the last 15 years, between me, my friends and my kids I've watched about 75 deer shot with rifles and 400 yards is still quite a ways out there for us. When my oldest son started hunting he used a 6mm so I thought matbe I should try some Nosler Partitions. After "TWO" lost deer in one day (one I watched the bullet center the lungs)and only one small speck of blood to show for it, he shot the biggest muley doe I have ever seen, broadside, slightly quartering away. When I pulled her lungs out they looked PERFECTLY healthy with the exception of a small hole. When I got her home and skinned her, the off-side shoulder almost fell off. That is 20+ inches of penetration befor expanding then BANG!!! The first two deer were shot broadside so it was the same as shooting them with a FMJ bullet. I'm still sick 10 years later. So I thought long and hard about it and I went back to what my dad used in a 243 when I was growing up; 90gr hollow points. When I was a kid a never understood all the articals about tracking deer after the shot; our deer never moved from where we shot them EXCLUDING shooter error).

I think the writers are on the payrole of big bullet companies so they are iclined to write about the "NECESSITY" of premium bullets for deer, and then go on to say something like; "at the shot the buck rared up ran into the brush. The guide found him 75 yards into the trees...full penatration of the whiz-bang-bonded-locked-tiped super bullet. My daughter's 4-point muley this year was ten feet from where he got hit with an 80gr Rem cor-loc because of kicking. My son shot a nice whitetail the same day with a 22-250 and 55gr "whatever bullet I had at the time." He didn't even quiver, just collapsed.

Bullet manufacturers are making tougher and stronger bullets now and when you shoot a deer with them they zip right through like a FMJ.

Standard deer (up to 150lbs) shot at standard distances (<350 yards) with standard calibers (243 - 30-06) need standard bullets (Speer hot core, rem cor loc, etc.) Premium bullets for deer is hogwash; but thats just MY opinion, I could be wrong!!!

 

[Wild_Bill]

Hi it all depends on the game if it is feral goats and pigs under 300 yards the old lead cored copper jacket hollow or soft points with pure lead work beautifully as they realy open up and flattern the game the budget cheepest projectiles i find work the best no hard alloys and no bonding you can use them in the magnums if you go the heavy for calibre way. The thing i will pay for though is an accurate long range projectile projectile manufacturing has come a long way and is allowing us to shoot further than before but as with the close ranges the Match Bullets are still the best.

As for the solid coper projectiles my opinion is they are only good for one thing that is real heavy game like bufalo and other game that might bight back and are very big that penetration is everything. But saying that a good quality FMJ like a hornady steel jacket projectile will work as well as anything.

I am going to use the Wildcats in 338 for my long range rifle as i wil be shooting past 1000 yards with it so in that situation it is worth every cent for the long shots and i am also going to try them against MAtch Kings for my Target SHooting to see if their is an advantage there because i want to win.



Cheers Bill
Australia

 

[Triggernosis]

Funny thing you bring this up. I've been shooting factory Hornady SST's in my .270 the past couple of years. Decided to try some ol' Rem. Core-Lokts in Reduced Recoil the other day and shot the very best group outta my rifle that I've ever shot.

 

[D.P.]

You can get a box of 500 SMK's at a fair price. Like others have said the NBT's do the trick.

Other than dangerous game they are the only two I use,with a berger thrown in once in a while /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Accuacy kills