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Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics
Needed Energy for killing.... is it a myth??
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<blockquote data-quote="SheepShooter" data-source="post: 201027" data-attributes="member: 11376"><p>If momentum is all there is to have ( p = m * v ) I would always go for the higher velocity aka higher energy calibers...</p><p>So a .300RUM with 180gr. would be better by momentum than the .308W with 180gr...</p><p></p><p>Good that momentum does only work in Hongkong-Shooter-Movies... when the bullet momentum goes over to the bad guy and throws him across the room... looks cool...</p><p></p><p>The problem with tissue damage is double-edged...</p><p>On one side we want tissue damage...</p><p>On the other side we want penetration to make tissue damage at vital tissue...</p><p></p><p>Tissue damage is done by direct contact with the bullet (manly handguns) or by tissue displacement (manly rifles) aka cavitation (in that case the bullet has only minmal contact to the tissue)...</p><p></p><p>And because Newton is valid both parts of the terminal ballistic has energy in it...</p><p>Paired with sectional density we have all the problem and the cure in two formulas:</p><p></p><p>1. Damage done to tissue aka work W is equal to the energy that is transfered from the bullet to the tissue...</p><p>The amount of energy transfered is proportional to the starting energy (energy just before contact) and the sectional density...:</p><p>W = E<span style="font-size: 9px">lost<span style="font-size: 10px"> ~ E / SD</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 10px">The work done at any given point is therefore proportional to the SD and the E at the given moment... while E will go down to zero, SD will go down aswell until the bullet finishes expansion... or break-up into smaller parts, each with part of the energy and a very low SD...</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 10px">2. Penetration is equal to the Energy Denisty which is the following:</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 10px">Penetration s ~ ED = 1/2 * SD * v²</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 10px">or if we put in SD = m / A; (A = area) we get:</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 10px">s ~ ED = 1/2 * m * v² / A = E / A</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 10px">So while energy goes down again, SD goes down also (A goes up)... put this time it is not good to have a low SD beacuse that shortens the penetration...</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 10px">And thats the double-edged sword...</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 10px">If we want damage we need high energy and low SD... aka fast and expanding bullets...</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 10px">If we want deep penetration we need high energy and high (stable) SD... aka fast non-expanding bullets...</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 10px">But because we want both we need the right kind of caliber/bullet for the job... one that expands as much as possible in the target and will penetrate the target completely...</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 10px">While we are always able to max out energy to the bullet - make it faster and heavier - we must chose the right kind of expansion...</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 10px">Also important to actual killing a being is that it is most convenient when it stays at the shot... best way to do this is to 'punch' the spinal cord hard enough... this can be done with the help of the hydraulic pressures that come from high energy (fast) bullets, aka cavitation...</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 10px">It is not the most reliable methode (deer in stress is more hardend), but it is the only 'hope' you have when you aim for the vital organs (heart) which are far from the spinal cord and which hit right kill (first is</span></span><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 10px"> unconsciousness) in a few seconds...</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 10px">So the bigger the target the more energy you need to reach the spinal cord with this secondary effects...</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 10px">Only problem with expansion that is this not preferable solved, is that it would be good to have very low expansion at the beginning and when the bullet is in the center of target expansion goes up fast to have maximum possible damage where it is needed...</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 10px">Yawing bullets can do this... but are not reliable to do it...</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 10px">Oh and my preferred experts are Sellier and Kneubuehl...</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="SheepShooter, post: 201027, member: 11376"] If momentum is all there is to have ( p = m * v ) I would always go for the higher velocity aka higher energy calibers... So a .300RUM with 180gr. would be better by momentum than the .308W with 180gr... Good that momentum does only work in Hongkong-Shooter-Movies... when the bullet momentum goes over to the bad guy and throws him across the room... looks cool... The problem with tissue damage is double-edged... On one side we want tissue damage... On the other side we want penetration to make tissue damage at vital tissue... Tissue damage is done by direct contact with the bullet (manly handguns) or by tissue displacement (manly rifles) aka cavitation (in that case the bullet has only minmal contact to the tissue)... And because Newton is valid both parts of the terminal ballistic has energy in it... Paired with sectional density we have all the problem and the cure in two formulas: 1. Damage done to tissue aka work W is equal to the energy that is transfered from the bullet to the tissue... The amount of energy transfered is proportional to the starting energy (energy just before contact) and the sectional density...: W = E[SIZE=1]lost[SIZE=2] ~ E / SD The work done at any given point is therefore proportional to the SD and the E at the given moment... while E will go down to zero, SD will go down aswell until the bullet finishes expansion... or break-up into smaller parts, each with part of the energy and a very low SD... 2. Penetration is equal to the Energy Denisty which is the following: Penetration s ~ ED = 1/2 * SD * v² or if we put in SD = m / A; (A = area) we get: s ~ ED = 1/2 * m * v² / A = E / A So while energy goes down again, SD goes down also (A goes up)... put this time it is not good to have a low SD beacuse that shortens the penetration... And thats the double-edged sword... If we want damage we need high energy and low SD... aka fast and expanding bullets... If we want deep penetration we need high energy and high (stable) SD... aka fast non-expanding bullets... But because we want both we need the right kind of caliber/bullet for the job... one that expands as much as possible in the target and will penetrate the target completely... While we are always able to max out energy to the bullet - make it faster and heavier - we must chose the right kind of expansion... Also important to actual killing a being is that it is most convenient when it stays at the shot... best way to do this is to 'punch' the spinal cord hard enough... this can be done with the help of the hydraulic pressures that come from high energy (fast) bullets, aka cavitation... It is not the most reliable methode (deer in stress is more hardend), but it is the only 'hope' you have when you aim for the vital organs (heart) which are far from the spinal cord and which hit right kill (first is[/SIZE][/SIZE][SIZE=1][SIZE=2] unconsciousness) in a few seconds... So the bigger the target the more energy you need to reach the spinal cord with this secondary effects... Only problem with expansion that is this not preferable solved, is that it would be good to have very low expansion at the beginning and when the bullet is in the center of target expansion goes up fast to have maximum possible damage where it is needed... Yawing bullets can do this... but are not reliable to do it... Oh and my preferred experts are Sellier and Kneubuehl... [/SIZE][/SIZE] [/QUOTE]
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Needed Energy for killing.... is it a myth??
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