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Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics
Necking down and changing shoulder angle?
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<blockquote data-quote="4mesh063" data-source="post: 26723" data-attributes="member: 941"><p>Brent, </p><p></p><p>If your bushing is nothing more than a cylinder, then I agree with Steve that the radius on the inside is going to be the limiting factor. However, if you have someone grind the ID of the bushings for you or do it with a burr gun (die grinder) you can put your own 40deg angle in there, sand it a little and it'll neck down a mile. Keep in mind that there will be a radius on the brass in front of the necked down part so you don't need to go 100% of the way to do what you want. </p><p></p><p>My dies that I go big steps with are two pieces. There are 4 tops , all the same except for the holes through the top for the neck are progressivly smaller. Just Cold rolled steel or whatever scrap I've got laying around. I think the last set was an old shaft that bearings spun on then set outside for a decade at some factory locally. It was the example piece for a replacement and I made dies out of it. The steel is then sanded in a lathe or with a die grinder and small 3m wheel. Then, wipe it with die wax and go to town. I wish I had an example of the stages of my brass to show you but I just finished all my brass 2 weeks ago so that's looking like stuff to go in the gun now. If you want a photo of the dies, let me know. I'll take one and send it to you. In another few months, I'd give you the dies for my 40deg 416/30. I just don't like the angle. After I rechamber the barrel, I'll have no use for them since I'm not going back to that again. </p><p></p><p>Oh yea, you said about the 40 degree thing. Ken says that there is a turbulance issue with a 40 shoulder that is inherantly a problem. The details are not clear to me any more but suffice to say that I will agree just because I don't like the cases forming donuts on every sizing. If the turbulance is a problem, my gun doen't shoot well enough to notice it. I have larger issues. However, I DO like my radius shouldered cases and I have some of them with 25 firings now. This lot of brass I have is much nicer than the last stuff. </p><p></p><p>The shoulder you are doing is different than mine in that your neck is so long you will most likely not have the base of the bullet in the donut of the case so it'll be no issue. That was the only problem I had with the case design. My real feeling is that if a case has enough room for the powder you want to put in, it's OK. Case configuration affects efficiency, but, the benifits of that are so small that you better really know how to make a gun shoot to realize it. My favorite analogy is, Top Fuel guys don't care about gas mileage. I'd have to shoot a lot of rounds through another case to spend the money I did for this akward case configuration. Twice. I still like it though and it cost less than a bass boat. </p><p></p><p>You know, If I was you, and wanted to try some of this stuff out, I'd look at some of these used equipment places and get a tool post grinder, a small lathe, like a hardinge collet lathe and a small mill. For under a grand I bet you could get all 3 and then doing a nice job on any small part like this would not be a $300 job at the local machine shop. With a hardinge lathe, you could easily make the form dies like I did in a CNC as long as you just stayed with the angled shoulder. Then just fire form a few cases and have dies made to match by Lee for 50 bucks and your shootin.</p><p></p><p>Something to think about.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="4mesh063, post: 26723, member: 941"] Brent, If your bushing is nothing more than a cylinder, then I agree with Steve that the radius on the inside is going to be the limiting factor. However, if you have someone grind the ID of the bushings for you or do it with a burr gun (die grinder) you can put your own 40deg angle in there, sand it a little and it'll neck down a mile. Keep in mind that there will be a radius on the brass in front of the necked down part so you don't need to go 100% of the way to do what you want. My dies that I go big steps with are two pieces. There are 4 tops , all the same except for the holes through the top for the neck are progressivly smaller. Just Cold rolled steel or whatever scrap I've got laying around. I think the last set was an old shaft that bearings spun on then set outside for a decade at some factory locally. It was the example piece for a replacement and I made dies out of it. The steel is then sanded in a lathe or with a die grinder and small 3m wheel. Then, wipe it with die wax and go to town. I wish I had an example of the stages of my brass to show you but I just finished all my brass 2 weeks ago so that's looking like stuff to go in the gun now. If you want a photo of the dies, let me know. I'll take one and send it to you. In another few months, I'd give you the dies for my 40deg 416/30. I just don't like the angle. After I rechamber the barrel, I'll have no use for them since I'm not going back to that again. Oh yea, you said about the 40 degree thing. Ken says that there is a turbulance issue with a 40 shoulder that is inherantly a problem. The details are not clear to me any more but suffice to say that I will agree just because I don't like the cases forming donuts on every sizing. If the turbulance is a problem, my gun doen't shoot well enough to notice it. I have larger issues. However, I DO like my radius shouldered cases and I have some of them with 25 firings now. This lot of brass I have is much nicer than the last stuff. The shoulder you are doing is different than mine in that your neck is so long you will most likely not have the base of the bullet in the donut of the case so it'll be no issue. That was the only problem I had with the case design. My real feeling is that if a case has enough room for the powder you want to put in, it's OK. Case configuration affects efficiency, but, the benifits of that are so small that you better really know how to make a gun shoot to realize it. My favorite analogy is, Top Fuel guys don't care about gas mileage. I'd have to shoot a lot of rounds through another case to spend the money I did for this akward case configuration. Twice. I still like it though and it cost less than a bass boat. You know, If I was you, and wanted to try some of this stuff out, I'd look at some of these used equipment places and get a tool post grinder, a small lathe, like a hardinge collet lathe and a small mill. For under a grand I bet you could get all 3 and then doing a nice job on any small part like this would not be a $300 job at the local machine shop. With a hardinge lathe, you could easily make the form dies like I did in a CNC as long as you just stayed with the angled shoulder. Then just fire form a few cases and have dies made to match by Lee for 50 bucks and your shootin. Something to think about. [/QUOTE]
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Necking down and changing shoulder angle?
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