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Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics
machined drive band bullets?
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<blockquote data-quote="Canadian Bushman" data-source="post: 943219" data-attributes="member: 41122"><p>Mr Schultz,</p><p> I think we are better understanding each other, now that we are getting more detailed in our discussion. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I completely agree. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Again i agree. </p><p>I also stated penetration of solids is unmatched. I had no intention of comparing weight, i only intended to draw attention to the twist requirements of monolithic bullets because the density of the material from which they are made. </p><p></p><p>However the statement in bold, i do not understand. I would think of two similarly designed monolithic bullets, for the same caliber, the heavier bullet would travel further and penetrate deeper. Perhaps you can elaborate?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I will honor your request of not comparing the attainable velocities of gsc monos to others i have tested with and have data for, since i actually do not have any first hand experience with your bullets. Although, If you decided to send me a sample of the heaviest 30 cal bullets you make for a 1:10 twist i would have no problem executing a test and posting my results, pending your approval.</p><p></p><p>Youre absolutely right, bc increases with speed, and the very high bc that can be achieved by pushing a very aerodynamic lathe turned projectile is most definitely a large advantage of monos. This i do not argue. </p><p></p><p>An obvious point to be considered here by anyone reading along, is that copper, bronze, and brass are not as malleable as lead and can exhibit much more outward pressure on a barrel bore. This is what makes cannelure and drive band designs critical to achieving high velocity for a givin weight monolithic bullet. In my opinion, many of the designs out there are a significant crutch in this aspect, and was the origin of my comment. Looking at some published load data that is readily available, can clearly show which projectiles suffer from this problem. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Again i will respect you request, but this is a problem i encountered with some mono bullets shot from factory barrels. With a custom barrel cut to much stricter tolerances and finer finishes this issue is probably non existent. I simply thought it was a point to be aware of for those deciding to try monolithics. Sorting by diameter is more crucial to maintaining a low es and sd because of these particular metals resistance to obturate, and if you know you have a barrel whose bore is on the upper end of a manufactures tolerance this problem is something you may have to deal with. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>We also use machines with a very involved temperature compensation software and numerous axial readouts and fail safe devices, and we still have had difficulty with these machines holding tolerances and behaving properly. Machines have come a long way since i began running them but there is no replacement for the warm body that sits in front of it. </p><p></p><p>I have read through your website multiple times in the past and multiple times yesterday after your post. Youre procedures for checking machine and equipment calibration as well as in process inspection are top notch, as well as far ahead of the curve by what is typical in the machining community and by american standards and requirements. This is no doubt how youre company is able to hold the tolerances specified on your website. This is similar to the process i used when producing my own bullets. Which i deemed to laborous. Id rather spend my weekends shooting instead of standing in front of a machine. I have Mon-Fri for that. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Again we are in agreement. </p><p>However, ive come to prefer the disintegration of lead core jacket bullets, although it is not at consistent and reliable as the expansion of controlled expansion monos, neither are my hunting habits, and this particular trait is one that ive come to know and use to my advantages. Not saying one is better than the other, just simply stating this is another thing to be considered when choosing a bullet for hunting. </p><p></p><p>You have no doubt answered some questions, and i personally have enjoyed this discussion so far, and thank you for you time spent contributing. Im sure you are a busy man and these post are getting rather long.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Canadian Bushman, post: 943219, member: 41122"] Mr Schultz, I think we are better understanding each other, now that we are getting more detailed in our discussion. I completely agree. Again i agree. I also stated penetration of solids is unmatched. I had no intention of comparing weight, i only intended to draw attention to the twist requirements of monolithic bullets because the density of the material from which they are made. However the statement in bold, i do not understand. I would think of two similarly designed monolithic bullets, for the same caliber, the heavier bullet would travel further and penetrate deeper. Perhaps you can elaborate? I will honor your request of not comparing the attainable velocities of gsc monos to others i have tested with and have data for, since i actually do not have any first hand experience with your bullets. Although, If you decided to send me a sample of the heaviest 30 cal bullets you make for a 1:10 twist i would have no problem executing a test and posting my results, pending your approval. Youre absolutely right, bc increases with speed, and the very high bc that can be achieved by pushing a very aerodynamic lathe turned projectile is most definitely a large advantage of monos. This i do not argue. An obvious point to be considered here by anyone reading along, is that copper, bronze, and brass are not as malleable as lead and can exhibit much more outward pressure on a barrel bore. This is what makes cannelure and drive band designs critical to achieving high velocity for a givin weight monolithic bullet. In my opinion, many of the designs out there are a significant crutch in this aspect, and was the origin of my comment. Looking at some published load data that is readily available, can clearly show which projectiles suffer from this problem. Again i will respect you request, but this is a problem i encountered with some mono bullets shot from factory barrels. With a custom barrel cut to much stricter tolerances and finer finishes this issue is probably non existent. I simply thought it was a point to be aware of for those deciding to try monolithics. Sorting by diameter is more crucial to maintaining a low es and sd because of these particular metals resistance to obturate, and if you know you have a barrel whose bore is on the upper end of a manufactures tolerance this problem is something you may have to deal with. We also use machines with a very involved temperature compensation software and numerous axial readouts and fail safe devices, and we still have had difficulty with these machines holding tolerances and behaving properly. Machines have come a long way since i began running them but there is no replacement for the warm body that sits in front of it. I have read through your website multiple times in the past and multiple times yesterday after your post. Youre procedures for checking machine and equipment calibration as well as in process inspection are top notch, as well as far ahead of the curve by what is typical in the machining community and by american standards and requirements. This is no doubt how youre company is able to hold the tolerances specified on your website. This is similar to the process i used when producing my own bullets. Which i deemed to laborous. Id rather spend my weekends shooting instead of standing in front of a machine. I have Mon-Fri for that. Again we are in agreement. However, ive come to prefer the disintegration of lead core jacket bullets, although it is not at consistent and reliable as the expansion of controlled expansion monos, neither are my hunting habits, and this particular trait is one that ive come to know and use to my advantages. Not saying one is better than the other, just simply stating this is another thing to be considered when choosing a bullet for hunting. You have no doubt answered some questions, and i personally have enjoyed this discussion so far, and thank you for you time spent contributing. Im sure you are a busy man and these post are getting rather long. [/QUOTE]
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