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Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics
Long Range thick skin bullets
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<blockquote data-quote="Pdvdh" data-source="post: 862149" data-attributes="member: 4191"><p>A large Alaskan bull moose dwarfs a large bull elk. The Thread was about bull moose, and this Post of mine is solely about application on bull moose. You can only shoot one per year per hunter and I presume the same applies in Canada. There aren't a lot of moose hunters in Alaska using Berger or any other thin target-jacketed lead core bullets on moose. I don't know a single individual that uses them on moose. I would estimate that 90% of bull moose are shot at less than 350yds, so don't expect an abundance of long range bullet pathology reports on bull moose, no matter the bullet in use. That being said, the bullets by far and away in most common use are controlled expansion bullets that are designed to retain a majority of their weight in a single mass. They are not designed to convert the majority of their weight to fragments and shrapnel. This means that it will be a long time before lots of bull moose kills with target style bullets information is available for consumption. And an even longer time before extended range moose kills past 600yd information becomes available. </p><p></p><p>Fiftydriver stated it's a mistake to select a target style bullet for bull moose, and he evidently feels that way strongly enough about this to state the use of target-style bullets on moose constitutes a bullet selection failure. Having shot a number of moose with a variety of bullets in several different calibers, and over a variety of distances, I believe there are much better bullet options available for the vast majority of moose hunters, under the vast majority of moose shot opportunities that will be experienced. </p><p></p><p>If I ever considered using a target style bullet on bull moose, those cartridges would only be carried for opportunistic use on a bull at a very long range, where the target style advantages were of maximal benefit, and the bullet impact velocity would be reduced to help ensure adequate penetration. The cartridges in the chamber or magazine would always be a controlled expansion bullet. There's a butt load of good ones to choose from. The target style bullet provides absolutely no advantage on large bull moose on any shot less than ~600yds, in my opinion. You'll risk a bullet blow up at high velocity closer range hits, and the consequent lack of penetration to inflict fatal damage. All without realizing any meaningful advantages of the target style bullets.</p><p></p><p>Again, a mature Alaskan bull moose is enormous. The extreme accuracy of the target style bullet isn't advantageous, because almost any quality controlled-expansion bullet these days is accurate enough for easy placement into the lethal zone out to 600yds. The high BC value of the target bullets increases retained velocity, but the high impact velocity with a fragmenting target-style bullet is actually <u>detrimental</u> to bullet penetration. The high BC value is nice for bucking the wind, but not a critical factor, because the horizontal width of the lethal zone is 2 feet. </p><p></p><p>I don't believe readers should apply too much from this thread about bullet performance on moose to the smaller large game animals that encompass the majority of large game hunted. A bullet that's exiting the far side of a deer has just penetrated the depth required to reach the vitals of a large bull moose.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Pdvdh, post: 862149, member: 4191"] A large Alaskan bull moose dwarfs a large bull elk. The Thread was about bull moose, and this Post of mine is solely about application on bull moose. You can only shoot one per year per hunter and I presume the same applies in Canada. There aren't a lot of moose hunters in Alaska using Berger or any other thin target-jacketed lead core bullets on moose. I don't know a single individual that uses them on moose. I would estimate that 90% of bull moose are shot at less than 350yds, so don't expect an abundance of long range bullet pathology reports on bull moose, no matter the bullet in use. That being said, the bullets by far and away in most common use are controlled expansion bullets that are designed to retain a majority of their weight in a single mass. They are not designed to convert the majority of their weight to fragments and shrapnel. This means that it will be a long time before lots of bull moose kills with target style bullets information is available for consumption. And an even longer time before extended range moose kills past 600yd information becomes available. Fiftydriver stated it's a mistake to select a target style bullet for bull moose, and he evidently feels that way strongly enough about this to state the use of target-style bullets on moose constitutes a bullet selection failure. Having shot a number of moose with a variety of bullets in several different calibers, and over a variety of distances, I believe there are much better bullet options available for the vast majority of moose hunters, under the vast majority of moose shot opportunities that will be experienced. If I ever considered using a target style bullet on bull moose, those cartridges would only be carried for opportunistic use on a bull at a very long range, where the target style advantages were of maximal benefit, and the bullet impact velocity would be reduced to help ensure adequate penetration. The cartridges in the chamber or magazine would always be a controlled expansion bullet. There's a butt load of good ones to choose from. The target style bullet provides absolutely no advantage on large bull moose on any shot less than ~600yds, in my opinion. You'll risk a bullet blow up at high velocity closer range hits, and the consequent lack of penetration to inflict fatal damage. All without realizing any meaningful advantages of the target style bullets. Again, a mature Alaskan bull moose is enormous. The extreme accuracy of the target style bullet isn't advantageous, because almost any quality controlled-expansion bullet these days is accurate enough for easy placement into the lethal zone out to 600yds. The high BC value of the target bullets increases retained velocity, but the high impact velocity with a fragmenting target-style bullet is actually [U]detrimental[/U] to bullet penetration. The high BC value is nice for bucking the wind, but not a critical factor, because the horizontal width of the lethal zone is 2 feet. I don't believe readers should apply too much from this thread about bullet performance on moose to the smaller large game animals that encompass the majority of large game hunted. A bullet that's exiting the far side of a deer has just penetrated the depth required to reach the vitals of a large bull moose. [/QUOTE]
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