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Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Reloading
Ladder test fail. Stop telling newbs to use advanced techniques.
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<blockquote data-quote="entoptics" data-source="post: 1525518" data-attributes="member: 104268"><p>All of the following tests used reloads with hand weighed charges and weight sorted, neck turned, trimmed, etc., brass.</p><p></p><p>270 Win test shown in the target picture in the OP. <strong><em>EDIT: The graph label is WRONG.</em></strong> This was a 145 ELDX.</p><p><span style="font-size: 14px">[ATTACH=full]113498[/ATTACH]</span></p><p></p><p>The following graphs are for my 300 WM, Savage LRH, Shilen 24" heavy sporter. All groups were prone, bipod, rear bags, calm winds. 100-400 yds, majority at 200 yds. The average group size for this rifle, from ~50 measured groups is about 0.9 MOA, but that includes all testing, so there's some real stinkers in the mix (it hates all NABLRs). With the ELDM, 80% of the groups are ≤0.8 MOA.</p><p></p><p>Ladder tests for charge/velocity. Find the nodes! (Interesting side lesson for newbs, even bullets of similar weight/construction, can produce quite different velocities and pressures!)</p><p>[ATTACH=full]113499[/ATTACH]</p><p></p><p>OAL vs MOA. Solid symbols are entire 4 shot groups, open symbols have the worst flier subtracted to evaluate the influence of a loose nut on the trigger. Find the node!</p><p>[ATTACH=full]113564[/ATTACH]</p><p></p><p><span style="font-size: 14px"><u><em><strong>In my experience</strong></em></u>, with 8 or 10 reloading projects for $300 - $1500 off the shelf rifles, various forms of ladder tests and such haven't produced anything useful beyond picking a velocity I like. </span></p><p></p><p>Regardless, I recently decided to revisit it for curiosity sake, and since I love shooting and collecting/analyzing data. I've tested my Shilen equipped, and my buddy's bone stock Savage LRH 300 WMs (consistent sub MOA shooters), two heavy barreled AR15s (~MOA shooters) as well as the aforementioned Marlin 270 (~1.5 MOA shooter). <em>So far I have found no "nodes" in length or charge that shoot better than the recipes I settled on in the first place.</em></p><p></p><p><strong><em><u>I'm sure it works for some folks/guns.</u></em></strong> I'm also fairly certain there's some reports of "nodes" out there that are likely just bad statistics. As you can see in the graph below (essentially the "Berger Test"), I got the absolute OPPOSITE results on two different days. If I'd seen either of those day's results alone, I'd be convinced I'd found something real.</p><p></p><p>OAL vs Group for two sessions. My rifle loves a good long jump...No wait...It likes them near the lands...</p><p>[ATTACH=full]113571[/ATTACH]</p><p></p><p><em>In summary, I'm not saying it doesn't work. I'm saying that for the new reloader, and this particular experienced loader, it may not be all that useful.</em></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="entoptics, post: 1525518, member: 104268"] All of the following tests used reloads with hand weighed charges and weight sorted, neck turned, trimmed, etc., brass. 270 Win test shown in the target picture in the OP. [B][I]EDIT: The graph label is WRONG.[/I][/B] This was a 145 ELDX. [SIZE=14px][ATTACH=full]113498[/ATTACH][/SIZE] The following graphs are for my 300 WM, Savage LRH, Shilen 24" heavy sporter. All groups were prone, bipod, rear bags, calm winds. 100-400 yds, majority at 200 yds. The average group size for this rifle, from ~50 measured groups is about 0.9 MOA, but that includes all testing, so there's some real stinkers in the mix (it hates all NABLRs). With the ELDM, 80% of the groups are ≤0.8 MOA. Ladder tests for charge/velocity. Find the nodes! (Interesting side lesson for newbs, even bullets of similar weight/construction, can produce quite different velocities and pressures!) [ATTACH=full]113499[/ATTACH] OAL vs MOA. Solid symbols are entire 4 shot groups, open symbols have the worst flier subtracted to evaluate the influence of a loose nut on the trigger. Find the node! [ATTACH=full]113564[/ATTACH] [SIZE=14px][U][I][B]In my experience[/B][/I][/U], with 8 or 10 reloading projects for $300 - $1500 off the shelf rifles, various forms of ladder tests and such haven't produced anything useful beyond picking a velocity I like. [/SIZE] Regardless, I recently decided to revisit it for curiosity sake, and since I love shooting and collecting/analyzing data. I've tested my Shilen equipped, and my buddy's bone stock Savage LRH 300 WMs (consistent sub MOA shooters), two heavy barreled AR15s (~MOA shooters) as well as the aforementioned Marlin 270 (~1.5 MOA shooter). [I]So far I have found no "nodes" in length or charge that shoot better than the recipes I settled on in the first place.[/I] [B][I][U]I'm sure it works for some folks/guns.[/U][/I][/B] I'm also fairly certain there's some reports of "nodes" out there that are likely just bad statistics. As you can see in the graph below (essentially the "Berger Test"), I got the absolute OPPOSITE results on two different days. If I'd seen either of those day's results alone, I'd be convinced I'd found something real. OAL vs Group for two sessions. My rifle loves a good long jump...No wait...It likes them near the lands... [ATTACH=full]113571[/ATTACH] [I]In summary, I'm not saying it doesn't work. I'm saying that for the new reloader, and this particular experienced loader, it may not be all that useful.[/I] [/QUOTE]
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Ladder test fail. Stop telling newbs to use advanced techniques.
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