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Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics
JDJones _ Barrel Steel
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<blockquote data-quote="James Jones" data-source="post: 133886" data-attributes="member: 8843"><p>Hello Victor , I bought a bunch of Blackstar accumax II barrels from Brownells when the disscontinued them , a tech from brownells acctualy called me before I recieved the barrel to infor me that they were difficult to machine and that I should contact Blackstar about that so I did and they gave me the rundown on their barrels and the material and how they reccomend to machine them , it cuts like heat treated CM which is pretty tough stuff , I just made lighter cuts with carbide cutters and a constant supply of Moly Dee (good cutting fluid). If you rockwell differany barrels you will see that CM barrels are harder than SS barrel plain and simple , the accuracy and longitivity comes from differant aspects other than the barrel hardness , the softer SS is easier to machine and I assume its easier to get more accurate rifling in the bore. The 416SS does resist heat and pressure erosion better than the CM so technicaly it would last longer and should be more accurate. Thanks about the best I can come up with on the CM vs SS issue.. On the point of the 17-4 I don't know why more barrel makers don't use it other than the end cost probably woulden't be cost effective to them , it would be harder and take longer to get a good accurate internal finish which adds to the end cost the 17-4 material is about twice the price for the raw blank added to the cost and from what I've seen they last longer wheich would meen you end up selling less barrels making the cost even higher probably to the point that you woulden't seel 1/4 as manny barrels its just a loose loose situation for the barrel maker. I think that Blackstar gets away with selling their barrles for what they do because the barrel end of the deal is a very small portion of the income to that company and all they are doing is getting a finished barrel for LW and using their electro polishing process in it. As for the material that LW uses I "assume" that its 17-4 or another super alloy and they just stuck their own tital on it since they make Blackstars barrels they are probably already setup to make the barrels from such a hard alloy.</p><p></p><p>If sombody wanted to make a realy long lasting barrel then somthing like Tungston Carbide , or one ofr the ceramic mixtures would work but then you get into a material thats so hard that its not possible to make the internal dimentions as accurate as needed for the BR shooters. its all a ballancing act I guess , you end up trading barrel life for accuracy hence the BR crownd using 416SS barrels.</p><p>Some makers have tried hard crome lining their barrels with "ok" results its just to hard to get the internal dimentions accurate so the end result is a barrel thats not as accurate as needed but will last a long time like in the military's auto weapons , they don't require match accuracy but long life and easy cleaning are a huge benifit.</p><p>Robar industries has a metal finish called NP3 which is amazing once its applied the surface never has to be oiled again dirt doesn't collect on it , paint won't stick to it and any liquid beads off of it , I don't know its heat resistant properties but if it was as good as hard crome then it would make a better internal finish , IF , it could be applied evenly.</p><p>Blackstar's process isn't a coating but a polishing so if the inside of the barrel is very accurate in all dimentions and their process works as its advertised then the end result is a super accurate barrel thats super smooth..</p><p></p><p>In the end after I win the lottery , I'm going to build a series of guns that are identical from the action to barrel dimentions using every barrel makers barrel , from the Poly twsit barrel to the 3 groove and the 5R concepts and I'm gonna fire the exact same number of rounds through them from the exact same caliber using the exact same powder and bullets , just as an attempt to see what acctualy last the longest and shoot the best!! because untill this is done the world will ned have more than just speculation as to whos barrrels are the fastest , most accurate longest lasting and so on</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="James Jones, post: 133886, member: 8843"] Hello Victor , I bought a bunch of Blackstar accumax II barrels from Brownells when the disscontinued them , a tech from brownells acctualy called me before I recieved the barrel to infor me that they were difficult to machine and that I should contact Blackstar about that so I did and they gave me the rundown on their barrels and the material and how they reccomend to machine them , it cuts like heat treated CM which is pretty tough stuff , I just made lighter cuts with carbide cutters and a constant supply of Moly Dee (good cutting fluid). If you rockwell differany barrels you will see that CM barrels are harder than SS barrel plain and simple , the accuracy and longitivity comes from differant aspects other than the barrel hardness , the softer SS is easier to machine and I assume its easier to get more accurate rifling in the bore. The 416SS does resist heat and pressure erosion better than the CM so technicaly it would last longer and should be more accurate. Thanks about the best I can come up with on the CM vs SS issue.. On the point of the 17-4 I don't know why more barrel makers don't use it other than the end cost probably woulden't be cost effective to them , it would be harder and take longer to get a good accurate internal finish which adds to the end cost the 17-4 material is about twice the price for the raw blank added to the cost and from what I've seen they last longer wheich would meen you end up selling less barrels making the cost even higher probably to the point that you woulden't seel 1/4 as manny barrels its just a loose loose situation for the barrel maker. I think that Blackstar gets away with selling their barrles for what they do because the barrel end of the deal is a very small portion of the income to that company and all they are doing is getting a finished barrel for LW and using their electro polishing process in it. As for the material that LW uses I "assume" that its 17-4 or another super alloy and they just stuck their own tital on it since they make Blackstars barrels they are probably already setup to make the barrels from such a hard alloy. If sombody wanted to make a realy long lasting barrel then somthing like Tungston Carbide , or one ofr the ceramic mixtures would work but then you get into a material thats so hard that its not possible to make the internal dimentions as accurate as needed for the BR shooters. its all a ballancing act I guess , you end up trading barrel life for accuracy hence the BR crownd using 416SS barrels. Some makers have tried hard crome lining their barrels with "ok" results its just to hard to get the internal dimentions accurate so the end result is a barrel thats not as accurate as needed but will last a long time like in the military's auto weapons , they don't require match accuracy but long life and easy cleaning are a huge benifit. Robar industries has a metal finish called NP3 which is amazing once its applied the surface never has to be oiled again dirt doesn't collect on it , paint won't stick to it and any liquid beads off of it , I don't know its heat resistant properties but if it was as good as hard crome then it would make a better internal finish , IF , it could be applied evenly. Blackstar's process isn't a coating but a polishing so if the inside of the barrel is very accurate in all dimentions and their process works as its advertised then the end result is a super accurate barrel thats super smooth.. In the end after I win the lottery , I'm going to build a series of guns that are identical from the action to barrel dimentions using every barrel makers barrel , from the Poly twsit barrel to the 3 groove and the 5R concepts and I'm gonna fire the exact same number of rounds through them from the exact same caliber using the exact same powder and bullets , just as an attempt to see what acctualy last the longest and shoot the best!! because untill this is done the world will ned have more than just speculation as to whos barrrels are the fastest , most accurate longest lasting and so on [/QUOTE]
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