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Hunting
Extreme Long Range Hunting & Shooting (ELR)
Is the 6.5 Creedmoor too "light" for 1,000+ yard hunting?
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<blockquote data-quote="packgoatguy" data-source="post: 1432905" data-attributes="member: 27192"><p>Well the problem with the "Energy" argument is that it doesn't necessarily take into account the terminal ballistics of the bullet. A broadhead tipped arrow can kill effectively at only 77lbs of energy because of the massive wound channel it can create with the razor blades it uses to slice through arteries and flesh. A bullet that is performing how it is designed will do more or less the same thing if it mushrooms properly (thus expanding its surface area and creating a larger wound tract.) For comparison sake, a 338 Lapua Mag with ball ammo might still have over 3000lbs of energy at 500 yards... but it would still be illegal to use in States that require soft tipped bullets or hollow point type bullets that are meant to expand upon impact. Also consider that there are many handgun hunters shooting deer out to 100 yards with 357 magnum pistols, but with only a 130-150 grain bullet and 1500-1700 fps at the muzzle, the max energy imparted is going to be under 800lbs... so to say that it is unethical to hunt deer with anything imparting less than 1000lbs of energy is going to rattle a few cages (consider that by the time it reaches 100 yards at a deer sized target, that 150 gr 357 bullet might only be imparting 500lbs of energy). </p><p></p><p>Instead of Energy, a much better calculation to perform would be to find out the expansion range for the bullet you plan to use, and compare that with the KPS scale. For example, take the Hornady ELD-X bullets (143 gr for the 6.5CM) that were engineered to still expand with as little as 1600 fps of velocity at the target. For a 6.5CM 143gr, assuming 6000 ft in elevation at 40 degree f ambient temp, a BC of .625, muzzle velocity of just 2700 (we have seen higher velocities from handholds), sectional density of .293, cross sectional area of .0547, that gives a muzzle energy of 2315, and 1000 yard velocity of 1600 fps and 1000 yard energy of 862 foot pounds. According to the Killing Power Score (KPS, which is the energy at target multiplied by sectional density multiplied by cross sectional area) the 143 gr 6.5CM bullet at 1000 yards still has a score of 13.8. According to some, a KPS score of 10 is the minimum for deer sized game. </p><p></p><p>So, according to this math, at 1000 yards, the 143 gr ELDX still has: </p><p>1. more energy than a 357 Magnum at point blank range, and more energy than a 44mag at 100 yards.</p><p>2. more than adequate KPS score (consider that the 7.62x39 at 100 yards only has a KPS score of about 15)</p><p>3. enough velocity for the bullet to perform as designed (mushroom to size, with significant mass retention).</p><p></p><p>So, my question for all is... assuming you could actually HIT the target at that range, why wouldnt 6.5CM be an ethical and effective cartridge for deer sized game at 1000 yards??</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="packgoatguy, post: 1432905, member: 27192"] Well the problem with the "Energy" argument is that it doesn't necessarily take into account the terminal ballistics of the bullet. A broadhead tipped arrow can kill effectively at only 77lbs of energy because of the massive wound channel it can create with the razor blades it uses to slice through arteries and flesh. A bullet that is performing how it is designed will do more or less the same thing if it mushrooms properly (thus expanding its surface area and creating a larger wound tract.) For comparison sake, a 338 Lapua Mag with ball ammo might still have over 3000lbs of energy at 500 yards... but it would still be illegal to use in States that require soft tipped bullets or hollow point type bullets that are meant to expand upon impact. Also consider that there are many handgun hunters shooting deer out to 100 yards with 357 magnum pistols, but with only a 130-150 grain bullet and 1500-1700 fps at the muzzle, the max energy imparted is going to be under 800lbs... so to say that it is unethical to hunt deer with anything imparting less than 1000lbs of energy is going to rattle a few cages (consider that by the time it reaches 100 yards at a deer sized target, that 150 gr 357 bullet might only be imparting 500lbs of energy). Instead of Energy, a much better calculation to perform would be to find out the expansion range for the bullet you plan to use, and compare that with the KPS scale. For example, take the Hornady ELD-X bullets (143 gr for the 6.5CM) that were engineered to still expand with as little as 1600 fps of velocity at the target. For a 6.5CM 143gr, assuming 6000 ft in elevation at 40 degree f ambient temp, a BC of .625, muzzle velocity of just 2700 (we have seen higher velocities from handholds), sectional density of .293, cross sectional area of .0547, that gives a muzzle energy of 2315, and 1000 yard velocity of 1600 fps and 1000 yard energy of 862 foot pounds. According to the Killing Power Score (KPS, which is the energy at target multiplied by sectional density multiplied by cross sectional area) the 143 gr 6.5CM bullet at 1000 yards still has a score of 13.8. According to some, a KPS score of 10 is the minimum for deer sized game. So, according to this math, at 1000 yards, the 143 gr ELDX still has: 1. more energy than a 357 Magnum at point blank range, and more energy than a 44mag at 100 yards. 2. more than adequate KPS score (consider that the 7.62x39 at 100 yards only has a KPS score of about 15) 3. enough velocity for the bullet to perform as designed (mushroom to size, with significant mass retention). So, my question for all is... assuming you could actually HIT the target at that range, why wouldnt 6.5CM be an ethical and effective cartridge for deer sized game at 1000 yards?? [/QUOTE]
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Is the 6.5 Creedmoor too "light" for 1,000+ yard hunting?
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