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Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics
How not, to use a 6.5 creedmoor
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<blockquote data-quote="Gcan" data-source="post: 1602067" data-attributes="member: 102867"><p>I disagree. Without knowing the angle, I think that first shot was high enough to kill that elk. That first shot should have been lethal. Period! It failed to penetrate the shoulder and get into the lungs and heart. It failed to deliver enough hydrostatic shock to knock the animal out. This is why many of us feel the 6.5s, particularly the credemore are simply insufficient for big game hunting. I'm not trying to be preachee. The truth is I've known great hunters that never understood how bullets kill. We see an animal get pole-axed and fall like a rock and simply accept the bullet killed the animal. The bullet killed the animal but Hydrostatic Shock (temporary would cavity) knocked it down. The two things occur instantly. Little bullets simply do not make the wound canal that big bullets make given the same conditions. Big bullets going very fast with the proper construction kill in two ways. And little bullets don't knock big animals down the second way. Yes, if the bullet breaks the neck they all fall. If a little bullet pases close enough to the heart or hits a major artery it can also produce shock. But Hydro shock from a large caliber will knock them out without breaking anything. Big mag velocity bullets also produce bigger shock waves and are therefore more forgiving. They are more likely to stop an animal with the same marginal shot.</p><p></p><p>How many stories have we been part of or heard of where an animal fell at the shot only to get up and run off moments later? The bullet damage will often eventually kill an animal while it's unconcious from the shock. We simply assume the animal died instantly. I have killed enough animals over 65 years to have made some bad shots. I became a bigger is always better advocate based on hundreds of animals. I found that often, an animal with a questionable shot, if knocked off its feet would stay down and die if left alone. But other animals with the same shot that did not fall would often go long distances to stay on their feet.</p><p></p><p>I shot a buffalo with a 300 Win mag near 350 30 years ago. The bullet missed the heart by inches, however when we cleaned it the heart was split open like a melon that had fallen 20'. You are not going to get that from a 6.5 at 600 yards. So sure, if you make good shots on everything you can hunt with anything. What we do is truly a game of inches and misses. Had the shot been 8" further back it would have easily killed that elk by shear internal damage (permanent wound cavity) and we'd have another bunch of yahoos claiming the Credemore is a great elk gun. It is not anymore than a 30-06 is an elephant gun. It will kill an elephant if all the stars align, but you shouldn't do it.</p><p>As to the 300 win, 300UM or 338s. Any one of those shooting any 180-250 grain good hunting bullet would have likely dropped that elk on that first shot. Any one of them would have broken the shoulder and passed into the lung cavity and possibly broken the far shoulder. We will never know, but I do know that a 6.5 at 600 kills one way, not two ways.</p><p>People read the ballistics numbers and think they can find a reliable KILLING caliber. Sadly for that elk, it just doesn't work that way.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Gcan, post: 1602067, member: 102867"] I disagree. Without knowing the angle, I think that first shot was high enough to kill that elk. That first shot should have been lethal. Period! It failed to penetrate the shoulder and get into the lungs and heart. It failed to deliver enough hydrostatic shock to knock the animal out. This is why many of us feel the 6.5s, particularly the credemore are simply insufficient for big game hunting. I’m not trying to be preachee. The truth is I’ve known great hunters that never understood how bullets kill. We see an animal get pole-axed and fall like a rock and simply accept the bullet killed the animal. The bullet killed the animal but Hydrostatic Shock (temporary would cavity) knocked it down. The two things occur instantly. Little bullets simply do not make the wound canal that big bullets make given the same conditions. Big bullets going very fast with the proper construction kill in two ways. And little bullets don’t knock big animals down the second way. Yes, if the bullet breaks the neck they all fall. If a little bullet pases close enough to the heart or hits a major artery it can also produce shock. But Hydro shock from a large caliber will knock them out without breaking anything. Big mag velocity bullets also produce bigger shock waves and are therefore more forgiving. They are more likely to stop an animal with the same marginal shot. How many stories have we been part of or heard of where an animal fell at the shot only to get up and run off moments later? The bullet damage will often eventually kill an animal while it’s unconcious from the shock. We simply assume the animal died instantly. I have killed enough animals over 65 years to have made some bad shots. I became a bigger is always better advocate based on hundreds of animals. I found that often, an animal with a questionable shot, if knocked off its feet would stay down and die if left alone. But other animals with the same shot that did not fall would often go long distances to stay on their feet. I shot a buffalo with a 300 Win mag near 350 30 years ago. The bullet missed the heart by inches, however when we cleaned it the heart was split open like a melon that had fallen 20’. You are not going to get that from a 6.5 at 600 yards. So sure, if you make good shots on everything you can hunt with anything. What we do is truly a game of inches and misses. Had the shot been 8” further back it would have easily killed that elk by shear internal damage (permanent wound cavity) and we’d have another bunch of yahoos claiming the Credemore is a great elk gun. It is not anymore than a 30-06 is an elephant gun. It will kill an elephant if all the stars align, but you shouldn’t do it. As to the 300 win, 300UM or 338s. Any one of those shooting any 180-250 grain good hunting bullet would have likely dropped that elk on that first shot. Any one of them would have broken the shoulder and passed into the lung cavity and possibly broken the far shoulder. We will never know, but I do know that a 6.5 at 600 kills one way, not two ways. People read the ballistics numbers and think they can find a reliable KILLING caliber. Sadly for that elk, it just doesn’t work that way. [/QUOTE]
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How not, to use a 6.5 creedmoor
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