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Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics
Help- my gun won’t group
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<blockquote data-quote="emp1953" data-source="post: 2917600" data-attributes="member: 71817"><p>I always grab for the low hanging fruit first before I start pulling the rifle apart. These steps are time consuming and monotonous but tend to eliminate a lot of sources of problems usually cost little more than time and, again,all before the rifle gets torn down.</p><p></p><p>1) Get some premium factory ammo.</p><p></p><p>a) Measure the COAL with a dial micrometer.</p><p></p><p>b) Record your measurements in a notebook.</p><p></p><p>c) If the first shot always goes where you want it to</p><p></p><p>i) Something is moving during recoil.</p><p></p><p>2) Let someone you trust shoot it.</p><p></p><p>a) How much time between each shot. I realize that carbon barrels are supposed to negate much of the temperature issues but 24" is a long tube, What is the taper?</p><p></p><p>b) If the first shot is ALWAYS where he wants it.</p><p></p><p>i) Then there is probably nothing wrong with the chamber/barrel</p><p></p><p>ii) If the first shot is ALWAYS two inches off of POA then the chamber/barrel is likely a problem.</p><p></p><p>3) Do not use the magazine, manually feed each round.</p><p></p><p>a) If step 3 tightens up the group.</p><p></p><p>i) Then If you reload your neck tension is insufficient.</p><p></p><p>ii) To prove this load up the magazine and fire a string.</p><p></p><p>iii) Mark each round with a sharpie numbering its place in the magazine.</p><p></p><p>iv) Measure COAL of round 1, Write that in the notebook.</p><p></p><p>v) Fire round 1, Remove all rounds from the magazine and measure all</p><p></p><p>vi) Note in notebook.</p><p></p><p>vii) Put the rounds in the magazine the way you have them numbered so they are always in the same order.</p><p></p><p>viii) Repeat this with all rounds in the magazine.</p><p></p><p>ix) If your recordings show the COAL increasing with each shot then recoil is causing the bullets to jump forward, and your distance off the rifling is changing.</p><p></p><p>4) If you are reloading, is this new brass or previously fired (in this rifle).</p><p></p><p>a) What kind of press are you using? Is it single stage, old, new?</p><p></p><p>i) Check the ram for wear throughout its entire length of travel grab it and try to wiggle it in the bushing in the press frame. You should not perceive any movement at all.</p><p></p><p>b) Do you have access to a runout gauge? If so, check runout on new brass if you have any. Record your measurements.</p><p></p><p>i) Measure again after you size the brass, measure runout and record the results.</p><p></p><p>ii) Load a few rounds, measure and record the runout results. Number them with a sharpie so you don't lose track of which is which.</p><p></p><p>iii) In a safe place, manually chamber and completely close the bolt, carefully cycle the bolt; remove the round and measure and record runout again.</p><p></p><p>iv) Load the magazine with these rounds. Cycle the bolt chambering and ejecting the rounds one by one, measure runout and record results.</p><p></p><p>If you have any questions about what any of these steps will prove for you please IM me and I will explain.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="emp1953, post: 2917600, member: 71817"] I always grab for the low hanging fruit first before I start pulling the rifle apart. These steps are time consuming and monotonous but tend to eliminate a lot of sources of problems usually cost little more than time and, again,all before the rifle gets torn down. 1) Get some premium factory ammo. a) Measure the COAL with a dial micrometer. b) Record your measurements in a notebook. c) If the first shot always goes where you want it to i) Something is moving during recoil. 2) Let someone you trust shoot it. a) How much time between each shot. I realize that carbon barrels are supposed to negate much of the temperature issues but 24" is a long tube, What is the taper? b) If the first shot is ALWAYS where he wants it. i) Then there is probably nothing wrong with the chamber/barrel ii) If the first shot is ALWAYS two inches off of POA then the chamber/barrel is likely a problem. 3) Do not use the magazine, manually feed each round. a) If step 3 tightens up the group. i) Then If you reload your neck tension is insufficient. ii) To prove this load up the magazine and fire a string. iii) Mark each round with a sharpie numbering its place in the magazine. iv) Measure COAL of round 1, Write that in the notebook. v) Fire round 1, Remove all rounds from the magazine and measure all vi) Note in notebook. vii) Put the rounds in the magazine the way you have them numbered so they are always in the same order. viii) Repeat this with all rounds in the magazine. ix) If your recordings show the COAL increasing with each shot then recoil is causing the bullets to jump forward, and your distance off the rifling is changing. 4) If you are reloading, is this new brass or previously fired (in this rifle). a) What kind of press are you using? Is it single stage, old, new? i) Check the ram for wear throughout its entire length of travel grab it and try to wiggle it in the bushing in the press frame. You should not perceive any movement at all. b) Do you have access to a runout gauge? If so, check runout on new brass if you have any. Record your measurements. i) Measure again after you size the brass, measure runout and record the results. ii) Load a few rounds, measure and record the runout results. Number them with a sharpie so you don't lose track of which is which. iii) In a safe place, manually chamber and completely close the bolt, carefully cycle the bolt; remove the round and measure and record runout again. iv) Load the magazine with these rounds. Cycle the bolt chambering and ejecting the rounds one by one, measure runout and record results. If you have any questions about what any of these steps will prove for you please IM me and I will explain. [/QUOTE]
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Help- my gun won’t group
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