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Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics
Hammer Shout Out to Weatherby
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<blockquote data-quote="JakeC" data-source="post: 2574297" data-attributes="member: 115819"><p>MPBR is passe, yes, but it was only good out to 300 or so with 20th century ballistics. Nearly doubling that range fundamentally alters its usefulness, and someone could sell that. Dialing is one tool in the shed, holding is another, reticles are another, point blank range is another. I think a lot of people would still prefer not to have to sit down with a chart or play with an app while game walks over the hill. YOu say everyone wants to dial, I say people like options. Belt and suspenders I believe the cliche goes. Barrel life is also a huge factor in the current attitude towards point blank range. I think more people are scared of 500 round barrel life and painful recoil with severely diminished returns than are drawn away by the allure of doing accounting in the forest. Of course if you're capable of shooting game out at 800 you're not going to be using a hammer or holdovers of any type probably, but that doesn't mean we all must like using ELR techniques past 250.</p><p></p><p>I don't know why you think that people who use holdovers are somehow subjected to troglodyte burdens that people dialing slow high BC bullets are not. Wind has always been an issue, and I've hardly ever heard of anyone dialing for it especially here in the West where it's so ridiculously variable. Yes you need to read environmental indicators. Cheating wind can happen several ways. BC is one. Getting there faster is another. Based on moderate numbers for both bullets a 140g absolute hammer drifts less than a handspan past a 180g ELDm out of my rifle in a 20 MPH crosswind at 600 y. That's not that much if you're already holding 28 inches by whatever means you enjoy the flavor of. And that's conditions I've never heard anyone condone on a live animal. 1.5 inches more in a 10 mph quartering wind is a lot more likely. Considering the ELD is dropping 60 percent more at that point I'd trade a little of the almighty BC for some ranging and SD forgiveness under normal circumstances. That is, one bullet is dropping one inch every 3 yards and the other takes 5 yards to drop an inch at 600. That's not worthless even in the age of ballistics apps. Regardless there is no plug-and-play for wind, dialing didn't fix that, you still need to have a skill. </p><p></p><p>My point is that innovation can happen in multiple directions, and one development doesn't necessarily cancel out the other. When lateral, parallel, and complimentary developments are made it's good for business, the consumer, and the animals we're shooting. Dialing and rangefinders and kestrels aren't the end of the story of the American rifle, there will be more chapters and they're not for everyone anyway. As far as legality I don't know why a low engraving pressure or nontraditional velocity is that big of a hurdle. I know some lawyers, but I'm not one. Are you? It's just an innovation like any other. There are massively tight bullets that are fundamentally more dangerous to load already on the market, and also ones with drive bands. Is it your argument that people are getting their numbers by shooting irresponsibly? That something mysterious is happening that can't be accounted for? That measurably safe chamber conditions are not possible for some reason? How is it different than a RUM with insane freebore or being able to buy 125 grain 30-06 rounds? You're not being specific, but there's nothing intrinsically dangerous I can see here, especially in a new proprietary cartridge with top-to-bottom control over chamber dynamics. The thing Weatherby is known for. I think as the industry looks for new excitement someone will figure out a way to get low engraving bullets into factory ammo, especially since the public has been very firm about liking moderate and light magnum cartridges where those bullets have the most dramatic benefit.</p><p></p><p>barnes may be getting harder to get, but there's more at play than that. QC is a real issue, and I'm saying that about my actual neighbors down there in Mona. I don't know of anyone who shoots them because of their accuracy. They're also extremely high weight retention and velocity dependent. A lot of people flat out dislike Barnes for one reason or another. Not for everyone. Neither is hammer. Weatherbys certainly aren't for everyone. I think there's more to it than Steve being a substitute while the real teacher is out for a semester. I suspect they're going to load Barnes if they can get them still, they're not going to claim they're interchangeable because the first Barnes fanatic who sees that his pretty mushroom broke apart is going to drive it to Sheridan to stuff it up someone's nose.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="JakeC, post: 2574297, member: 115819"] MPBR is passe, yes, but it was only good out to 300 or so with 20th century ballistics. Nearly doubling that range fundamentally alters its usefulness, and someone could sell that. Dialing is one tool in the shed, holding is another, reticles are another, point blank range is another. I think a lot of people would still prefer not to have to sit down with a chart or play with an app while game walks over the hill. YOu say everyone wants to dial, I say people like options. Belt and suspenders I believe the cliche goes. Barrel life is also a huge factor in the current attitude towards point blank range. I think more people are scared of 500 round barrel life and painful recoil with severely diminished returns than are drawn away by the allure of doing accounting in the forest. Of course if you're capable of shooting game out at 800 you're not going to be using a hammer or holdovers of any type probably, but that doesn't mean we all must like using ELR techniques past 250. I don't know why you think that people who use holdovers are somehow subjected to troglodyte burdens that people dialing slow high BC bullets are not. Wind has always been an issue, and I've hardly ever heard of anyone dialing for it especially here in the West where it's so ridiculously variable. Yes you need to read environmental indicators. Cheating wind can happen several ways. BC is one. Getting there faster is another. Based on moderate numbers for both bullets a 140g absolute hammer drifts less than a handspan past a 180g ELDm out of my rifle in a 20 MPH crosswind at 600 y. That's not that much if you're already holding 28 inches by whatever means you enjoy the flavor of. And that's conditions I've never heard anyone condone on a live animal. 1.5 inches more in a 10 mph quartering wind is a lot more likely. Considering the ELD is dropping 60 percent more at that point I'd trade a little of the almighty BC for some ranging and SD forgiveness under normal circumstances. That is, one bullet is dropping one inch every 3 yards and the other takes 5 yards to drop an inch at 600. That's not worthless even in the age of ballistics apps. Regardless there is no plug-and-play for wind, dialing didn't fix that, you still need to have a skill. My point is that innovation can happen in multiple directions, and one development doesn't necessarily cancel out the other. When lateral, parallel, and complimentary developments are made it's good for business, the consumer, and the animals we're shooting. Dialing and rangefinders and kestrels aren't the end of the story of the American rifle, there will be more chapters and they're not for everyone anyway. As far as legality I don't know why a low engraving pressure or nontraditional velocity is that big of a hurdle. I know some lawyers, but I'm not one. Are you? It's just an innovation like any other. There are massively tight bullets that are fundamentally more dangerous to load already on the market, and also ones with drive bands. Is it your argument that people are getting their numbers by shooting irresponsibly? That something mysterious is happening that can't be accounted for? That measurably safe chamber conditions are not possible for some reason? How is it different than a RUM with insane freebore or being able to buy 125 grain 30-06 rounds? You're not being specific, but there's nothing intrinsically dangerous I can see here, especially in a new proprietary cartridge with top-to-bottom control over chamber dynamics. The thing Weatherby is known for. I think as the industry looks for new excitement someone will figure out a way to get low engraving bullets into factory ammo, especially since the public has been very firm about liking moderate and light magnum cartridges where those bullets have the most dramatic benefit. barnes may be getting harder to get, but there's more at play than that. QC is a real issue, and I'm saying that about my actual neighbors down there in Mona. I don't know of anyone who shoots them because of their accuracy. They're also extremely high weight retention and velocity dependent. A lot of people flat out dislike Barnes for one reason or another. Not for everyone. Neither is hammer. Weatherbys certainly aren't for everyone. I think there's more to it than Steve being a substitute while the real teacher is out for a semester. I suspect they're going to load Barnes if they can get them still, they're not going to claim they're interchangeable because the first Barnes fanatic who sees that his pretty mushroom broke apart is going to drive it to Sheridan to stuff it up someone's nose. [/QUOTE]
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Hammer Shout Out to Weatherby
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