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Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics
Full Length or Neck Only; What's Best Resizing for Accuracy?
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<blockquote data-quote="INTJ1" data-source="post: 1916615" data-attributes="member: 34312"><p>I came on here to post info about the 33-28 Nosler elk rifle I just built, but this thread caught me eye and I can't resist. This is a long post, but I am going to explain why neck-only sizing isn't the best way, then explain how it might be.</p><p></p><p>I shoot NBRSA 600 and 1000 yd BR. I make absolutely ZERO compromises when it comes to accuracy and precision, and don't do anything that doesn't help accuracy and precision. I spend an awful lot of time loading and tuning. </p><p></p><p>I have a scale that measures to the thousandth of a grain. I weigh and sort primers. I use the K&N Gauge to seat primers that measures each primer cup height and case pocket depth so I can get exactly the desired amount of crush on each primer in each specific case. I seat bullets with Wilson inline dies and a 21st Century Hydro Seater that measures seating pressure, and then sort the rounds by the seating pressure. I measure the nose of the bullet in two places and sort, and then I spin each bullet on a Bullet Genie and sort again. I anneal after every firing (though I have had good results not annealing at all. Just never do the anneal every 3 or 4 rounds thing). I have Whidden custom dies and I use both a bushing and expander. I turn necks for .003" clearance on my 6BRA and .004" on my 300 WSM. I now chamber my own barrels and do my own stock work.</p><p></p><p>I do NOT neck only size and no one I know that competes does. I bump the shoulder .002" to .003". Before I had the custom dies I would occasionally have to small base size to reduce diameter, and small basing made ZERO difference in how well the rounds shot. Over the years we have added MORE clearance to our loaded rounds in shoulder length, neck clearance, and body clearance, not less.</p><p></p><p>I thought I knew what was important to make precision loads when I was shooting hunting rifles, but with LR BR my eyes have sure been opened. A 300 WSM needs to <em>average</em> 5/8" or better 5-shot groups at 200 yds to be competitive at distance. A 6 BRA needs to <em>average</em> at least 3/8" 5-shot groups at 200 yds to compete at distance. Official Screamer Groups (they give you a patch) are 5-shots 1" and under at 600 yds and 3" and under at 1000. Screamer groups will usually be small group of the match, though the all-time records are smaller. More importantly, at 600 yds 3 and 6 target aggs need to be in the low to mid two's to win in average conditions, and in the high 4s/low 5s at 1000.</p><p></p><p>I bump the shoulder on every bottle-necked cartridge I load for, from 6 BRA to 416 Rem, and I always find good accuracy. The hunting guns--even long range hunting guns--do not come close to the precision of an LR BR rifle. I do not expect them to. However, there are some unique things to LR BR that do not apply to even long rage hunting rifles, and while a long range hunting rifle isn't a good choice at the LR BR firing line, a LR BR rifle is not a great long range hunting rifle. </p><p></p><p>In LR BR, we get good conditions maybe 10% of the time, average conditions 80% of the time, poor conditions 10% of the time. Since most of the shooting is in average conditions, we are always fighting the wind. Some days I have it dialed, other days not so much. The best technique to overcome the wind is to run your shot string as fast as possible so as to keep all the shots in the same micro condition. To do that the rifle must track nearly perfectly so any adjustments need to be zero to very minor between shots. </p><p></p><p>Most of us have right bolt, dual port, left eject actions so we can single feed very quickly. With a rifle that is tracking well, getting 5-shots off in 15 seconds or better is common. Some guys can get through a 10-shot string in 20-25 sec. Having a case that has sticky extraction upsets tracking and slows you down, possibly putting you out of the condition. </p><p></p><p>[MEDIA=youtube]1kXR2rIk1ZU[/MEDIA]</p><p></p><p>At my last 1000 yd match I came in third for Light Gun agg with a 6-target agg of 5.376." The winner shot 4.939" agg. Fifth place shot a 5.554" agg. There is no statistical difference in any of those aggs, as .615" at 1000 yds is about .06 MOA. These rifles were all tuned to the same level and the shoots of about the same skill. The determining factor was most likely how well and individual shooter kept their groups in the same micro condition.</p><p></p><p>If there wasn't any wind, it wouldn't be as big of a deal to make sure the cases are well clearanced in the chamber. Thus neck-only sizing may not hurt anything when you don't have to make small groups at long range. I have a hard time saying it might be better to neck only size, but I have no issue if someone else thinks that. </p><p></p><p>When hunting at longer ranges we usually only make one shot, two at the most, and we don't need that ability to rapid fire. We also don't need BR level groups. What we do need is an reasonable grouping rifle that is good at putting the first round on target. That drives long range hunting rifles to use ultra high BC bullets that don't group as well as typical competition bullets but are better in the wind--since we don't usually have wind flags along our course of fire when hunting. Whatever it takes to get those first rounds hits is what we need to do, and if neck-only sizing works for someone then they should keep doing that.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="INTJ1, post: 1916615, member: 34312"] I came on here to post info about the 33-28 Nosler elk rifle I just built, but this thread caught me eye and I can't resist. This is a long post, but I am going to explain why neck-only sizing isn't the best way, then explain how it might be. I shoot NBRSA 600 and 1000 yd BR. I make absolutely ZERO compromises when it comes to accuracy and precision, and don't do anything that doesn't help accuracy and precision. I spend an awful lot of time loading and tuning. I have a scale that measures to the thousandth of a grain. I weigh and sort primers. I use the K&N Gauge to seat primers that measures each primer cup height and case pocket depth so I can get exactly the desired amount of crush on each primer in each specific case. I seat bullets with Wilson inline dies and a 21st Century Hydro Seater that measures seating pressure, and then sort the rounds by the seating pressure. I measure the nose of the bullet in two places and sort, and then I spin each bullet on a Bullet Genie and sort again. I anneal after every firing (though I have had good results not annealing at all. Just never do the anneal every 3 or 4 rounds thing). I have Whidden custom dies and I use both a bushing and expander. I turn necks for .003" clearance on my 6BRA and .004" on my 300 WSM. I now chamber my own barrels and do my own stock work. I do NOT neck only size and no one I know that competes does. I bump the shoulder .002" to .003". Before I had the custom dies I would occasionally have to small base size to reduce diameter, and small basing made ZERO difference in how well the rounds shot. Over the years we have added MORE clearance to our loaded rounds in shoulder length, neck clearance, and body clearance, not less. I thought I knew what was important to make precision loads when I was shooting hunting rifles, but with LR BR my eyes have sure been opened. A 300 WSM needs to [I]average[/I] 5/8" or better 5-shot groups at 200 yds to be competitive at distance. A 6 BRA needs to [I]average[/I] at least 3/8" 5-shot groups at 200 yds to compete at distance. Official Screamer Groups (they give you a patch) are 5-shots 1" and under at 600 yds and 3" and under at 1000. Screamer groups will usually be small group of the match, though the all-time records are smaller. More importantly, at 600 yds 3 and 6 target aggs need to be in the low to mid two's to win in average conditions, and in the high 4s/low 5s at 1000. I bump the shoulder on every bottle-necked cartridge I load for, from 6 BRA to 416 Rem, and I always find good accuracy. The hunting guns--even long range hunting guns--do not come close to the precision of an LR BR rifle. I do not expect them to. However, there are some unique things to LR BR that do not apply to even long rage hunting rifles, and while a long range hunting rifle isn't a good choice at the LR BR firing line, a LR BR rifle is not a great long range hunting rifle. In LR BR, we get good conditions maybe 10% of the time, average conditions 80% of the time, poor conditions 10% of the time. Since most of the shooting is in average conditions, we are always fighting the wind. Some days I have it dialed, other days not so much. The best technique to overcome the wind is to run your shot string as fast as possible so as to keep all the shots in the same micro condition. To do that the rifle must track nearly perfectly so any adjustments need to be zero to very minor between shots. Most of us have right bolt, dual port, left eject actions so we can single feed very quickly. With a rifle that is tracking well, getting 5-shots off in 15 seconds or better is common. Some guys can get through a 10-shot string in 20-25 sec. Having a case that has sticky extraction upsets tracking and slows you down, possibly putting you out of the condition. [MEDIA=youtube]1kXR2rIk1ZU[/MEDIA] At my last 1000 yd match I came in third for Light Gun agg with a 6-target agg of 5.376." The winner shot 4.939" agg. Fifth place shot a 5.554" agg. There is no statistical difference in any of those aggs, as .615" at 1000 yds is about .06 MOA. These rifles were all tuned to the same level and the shoots of about the same skill. The determining factor was most likely how well and individual shooter kept their groups in the same micro condition. If there wasn't any wind, it wouldn't be as big of a deal to make sure the cases are well clearanced in the chamber. Thus neck-only sizing may not hurt anything when you don't have to make small groups at long range. I have a hard time saying it might be better to neck only size, but I have no issue if someone else thinks that. When hunting at longer ranges we usually only make one shot, two at the most, and we don't need that ability to rapid fire. We also don't need BR level groups. What we do need is an reasonable grouping rifle that is good at putting the first round on target. That drives long range hunting rifles to use ultra high BC bullets that don't group as well as typical competition bullets but are better in the wind--since we don't usually have wind flags along our course of fire when hunting. Whatever it takes to get those first rounds hits is what we need to do, and if neck-only sizing works for someone then they should keep doing that. [/QUOTE]
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