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Long Range Hunting & Shooting
FPE needed to cleanly disptach whitetail deer?
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<blockquote data-quote="Fiftydriver" data-source="post: 418964" data-attributes="member: 10"><p>ATH,</p><p> </p><p>Very good point about frontal area. That is why big bore handguns kill big game MUCH more effectively they they really should for their on paper numbers.</p><p> </p><p>Bullet expansion is a funny thing. In smaller calibers, its really critical, the larger the caliber the less critical it becomes but there is no question that the more a bullet expands the more energy is transfered to the game animal.</p><p> </p><p>Expansion also has its limits as well because the more a bullet expands, the less it will penetrate. Its a fine line.</p><p> </p><p>When I used to hunt exclusively with big bore handguns, namely a hot loaded 45 Colt with 355 gr WFNGC, a 480 Ruger with 425 gr WFNGC and a 50 AE with a 440 gr WFNGC bullet. I did extensive penetration tests comparing these handgun chambering against rifle chamberings, namely a 7mm Rem Mag with 160 gr partitions and a 300 RUM with 180 gr Ballistic tips and partitions. At 100 yards, I fired all of them into just about every type of media you could think of and in every case, the handgun bullets, which are heat treated solid alloy lead bullets outpenetrated the rifle bullets.</p><p> </p><p>Even more interesting is that the permanent wound channel created along the bullets penetration paths were always larger with the handguns. Now the rifles had HUGE temporary wound channels which is part of that hydrostatic shock wave that high velocity projectiles impose on target but after that, the wide flat nose of the handgun bullets plowed more material out the way and penetrated deeper.</p><p> </p><p>The interesting thing was the relatively low velocity I was loading the handguns to. 1150 fps for the 45 colt, 1170 fps for the 480 Ruger and an even 1100 fps for the 50 AE. </p><p> </p><p>I also figured that if these loads performed well then higher velocity loads with the same bullets would perform even better. That really did not prove to be the case. I tested the 454 Casull, 475 Linebaugh and a friend 500 linebaugh with the same bullets but in every case, the larger round were averaging 200-300 fps more velocity then the ones I used. The crazy thing is that penetration increased less then 5% with the faster loads. Not worth the nearly double felt recoil with the big handgun rounds.</p><p> </p><p>I went back to the moderate velocity handguns with heavy bullets and have never been wanting for more power.</p><p> </p><p>So, velocity has very little to do with killing game, energy, again not much, bullet design is critical. If you have an expanding bullet, you need enough FPS to give the bullet enough energy to expand on target.</p><p> </p><p>If your using a solid bullet, rifle or handgun, often times, really high velocity can be a bad thing. In handguns, there is a sweet spot of around 1100-1200 fps where big bore handguns perform at their best and penetrate very straight and deep.</p><p> </p><p>In big bore rifles using solids, there is also a sweet spot, generally in the 2200-2400 fps range. That is why the best African stoppers are loaded to this velocity. If you need more power, the stay in this velocity range, just add caliber and bullet mass.</p><p> </p><p>These two types of weapons have nothing to do with long range hunting but it does show how proper bullet design will function over high velocity or energy as far as cleanly taking game.</p><p> </p><p>In our game, we have to know the limits of our bullet expansion, both over expansion at closer range and under expansion at long range. That is why some of the best long range bullets are the Bergers, Ballistic Tips, Accubonds and A-max bullets, especially for long range hunting because they all expand with a relatively low energy level ensuring that at long range we will have effective terminal performance.</p><p> </p><p>A hard bullet such as a barnes TSX is a great bullet for closer range and even out to 600 yards or so with a chambering that can give them a good kick in the pants and keep velocity high. They thrive on velocity but at long range, thats what hurts their terminal performance.</p><p> </p><p>As mentioned, your job now is simply to find the right bullet for your needs. In the 308, ALOT of bullets will work well. Do not get overly heavy, you want to get good velocity and with this round, that can be a challange. I would look at a 165 gr Ballistic tip or Accubond, a 168 gr berger or something similiar in the A-Max, SST or Interbond line from Hornady. All will offer you about the most effective range you can expect to get with a 308.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Fiftydriver, post: 418964, member: 10"] ATH, Very good point about frontal area. That is why big bore handguns kill big game MUCH more effectively they they really should for their on paper numbers. Bullet expansion is a funny thing. In smaller calibers, its really critical, the larger the caliber the less critical it becomes but there is no question that the more a bullet expands the more energy is transfered to the game animal. Expansion also has its limits as well because the more a bullet expands, the less it will penetrate. Its a fine line. When I used to hunt exclusively with big bore handguns, namely a hot loaded 45 Colt with 355 gr WFNGC, a 480 Ruger with 425 gr WFNGC and a 50 AE with a 440 gr WFNGC bullet. I did extensive penetration tests comparing these handgun chambering against rifle chamberings, namely a 7mm Rem Mag with 160 gr partitions and a 300 RUM with 180 gr Ballistic tips and partitions. At 100 yards, I fired all of them into just about every type of media you could think of and in every case, the handgun bullets, which are heat treated solid alloy lead bullets outpenetrated the rifle bullets. Even more interesting is that the permanent wound channel created along the bullets penetration paths were always larger with the handguns. Now the rifles had HUGE temporary wound channels which is part of that hydrostatic shock wave that high velocity projectiles impose on target but after that, the wide flat nose of the handgun bullets plowed more material out the way and penetrated deeper. The interesting thing was the relatively low velocity I was loading the handguns to. 1150 fps for the 45 colt, 1170 fps for the 480 Ruger and an even 1100 fps for the 50 AE. I also figured that if these loads performed well then higher velocity loads with the same bullets would perform even better. That really did not prove to be the case. I tested the 454 Casull, 475 Linebaugh and a friend 500 linebaugh with the same bullets but in every case, the larger round were averaging 200-300 fps more velocity then the ones I used. The crazy thing is that penetration increased less then 5% with the faster loads. Not worth the nearly double felt recoil with the big handgun rounds. I went back to the moderate velocity handguns with heavy bullets and have never been wanting for more power. So, velocity has very little to do with killing game, energy, again not much, bullet design is critical. If you have an expanding bullet, you need enough FPS to give the bullet enough energy to expand on target. If your using a solid bullet, rifle or handgun, often times, really high velocity can be a bad thing. In handguns, there is a sweet spot of around 1100-1200 fps where big bore handguns perform at their best and penetrate very straight and deep. In big bore rifles using solids, there is also a sweet spot, generally in the 2200-2400 fps range. That is why the best African stoppers are loaded to this velocity. If you need more power, the stay in this velocity range, just add caliber and bullet mass. These two types of weapons have nothing to do with long range hunting but it does show how proper bullet design will function over high velocity or energy as far as cleanly taking game. In our game, we have to know the limits of our bullet expansion, both over expansion at closer range and under expansion at long range. That is why some of the best long range bullets are the Bergers, Ballistic Tips, Accubonds and A-max bullets, especially for long range hunting because they all expand with a relatively low energy level ensuring that at long range we will have effective terminal performance. A hard bullet such as a barnes TSX is a great bullet for closer range and even out to 600 yards or so with a chambering that can give them a good kick in the pants and keep velocity high. They thrive on velocity but at long range, thats what hurts their terminal performance. As mentioned, your job now is simply to find the right bullet for your needs. In the 308, ALOT of bullets will work well. Do not get overly heavy, you want to get good velocity and with this round, that can be a challange. I would look at a 165 gr Ballistic tip or Accubond, a 168 gr berger or something similiar in the A-Max, SST or Interbond line from Hornady. All will offer you about the most effective range you can expect to get with a 308. [/QUOTE]
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FPE needed to cleanly disptach whitetail deer?
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