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Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics
Fluted Bartlein vs Proof Research sendero contours
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<blockquote data-quote="AKdan" data-source="post: 1400813" data-attributes="member: 83800"><p>Hey guys I figure I would throw out a few things as this is a place to learn a little bit more. I do not intend to argue, so I apologize if anything offends anyone. I really had a fun time "nerding out" doing a little research and this is what I found. I appreciate when I am given facts a figures, maybe sometimes known as "WAG's", for various things, but with the tidbit of sodium chloride, I prefer to verify the information provided is accurate. After reading the "definitions" , "facts , and "whatchamawhosits" I did a little google searching. I stumbled across a few sites that provide a little more information on the subject. </p><p></p><p>For reference this appears to be the website that information in Phorworth's post comes from. hhttps://medium.com/@lucidlearning314/thermal-conductivity-and-diffusivity-e6d3b5ee7ce5 I encourage a thorough read of the entire article. </p><p></p><p>I enjoyed reading the article found at: <a href="https://www.christinedemerchant.com/carbon_characteristics_heat_conductivity.html" target="_blank">https://www.christinedemerchant.com/carbon_characteristics_heat_conductivity.html</a></p><p>There are several scholarly reads associated with this article with several studies base on carbon thermal properties. I Find this article discusses additional properties a little closer to the properties of carbon barrels that the OP was hoping to discuss.</p><p></p><p>I encourage researching more articles so that we all are a little more informed and not acquiring all of our information from a regurgitation of speculative information. </p><p></p><p>Barrels are judged almost purely by their performance. A good barrel is one that shoot very well. We all want to buy barrels that shoot better than we can. (or buy with the hope it make us shoot better). To say that a Carbon Barrel is an "insulator" and incinerating the metal liner is only true if the manufacturer uses an epoxy that inhibits the thermal transfer in the carbon. To say that a Carbon barrel reduces in heat caused by XX grains of powder is also not true. The heat introduced to the wear surface of the bore is independent of the outer construction of the barrel. Several people have tested round counts on both types of barrels and found similar wear on both resulting in a similar barrel life with similar use. Accuracy has been an issue for some steel and carbon barrel makers.....they usually struggle until the figure it out. There are both carbon barrels and steel barrels that shoot marvelously. make your own conclusion. </p><p></p><p>The OP was seeking information about accuracy and weight. As has been discussed many times over the mechanics of fluting a barrel (very minor effect on thermal transfer......and yes it is ALL steel...weird). The stiffness of a barrel has great effects on the harmonics of the barrel. The inherent stiffness compared to weight is highly favoring carbon barrels, though not saying it is necessarily stiffer than an all steel barrel as I have not actually measured it with two comparable barrels. HOWEVER, My 28" 338 proof barrel is significantly more stiff than my 28" 338 fluted medium palma barrel. Even more interesting is they both weigh the same. I am hanging a "noise snuffer" on the end of the tube so I wanted to add a little stiffness without the extra baggage. The gain almost lies in the ability to have a silly thick barrel that is extremely stiff (thick steel barrels are still to) but it is light weight like my thin fluted mountain whistly groovy barrel (anyone else notice their fluted barrel whistles a lot in the wind?). This gain comes at a significant cost $$$$, but to some it is worth it. The "dimensional stability" and "Stiffness" is what i paid an extra $300 over my "not so rapid cooling" fluted barrel. Accuracy for both barrels is exactly what I want so I love them both. </p><p></p><p>This has been quite fun to jump in on. I encourage more learning and studying the properties and mechanics of materials. Manufacturers spend a tremendous amount of money engineering tools and materials to provide a result that will support their passion to provide manufacturing in the firearms industry(yes this means sales). Figure out what your priorities for a rifle build are and base your decision on that. If you base your decision based on cooling rates I would suggest selling your Hawkeye and buying a Texas Instrument a torch and spend way less on precision machining. </p><p></p><p>Thanks,</p><p></p><p>Dan</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AKdan, post: 1400813, member: 83800"] Hey guys I figure I would throw out a few things as this is a place to learn a little bit more. I do not intend to argue, so I apologize if anything offends anyone. I really had a fun time "nerding out" doing a little research and this is what I found. I appreciate when I am given facts a figures, maybe sometimes known as "WAG's", for various things, but with the tidbit of sodium chloride, I prefer to verify the information provided is accurate. After reading the "definitions" , "facts , and "whatchamawhosits" I did a little google searching. I stumbled across a few sites that provide a little more information on the subject. For reference this appears to be the website that information in Phorworth's post comes from. hhttps://medium.com/@lucidlearning314/thermal-conductivity-and-diffusivity-e6d3b5ee7ce5 I encourage a thorough read of the entire article. I enjoyed reading the article found at: [URL]https://www.christinedemerchant.com/carbon_characteristics_heat_conductivity.html[/URL] There are several scholarly reads associated with this article with several studies base on carbon thermal properties. I Find this article discusses additional properties a little closer to the properties of carbon barrels that the OP was hoping to discuss. I encourage researching more articles so that we all are a little more informed and not acquiring all of our information from a regurgitation of speculative information. Barrels are judged almost purely by their performance. A good barrel is one that shoot very well. We all want to buy barrels that shoot better than we can. (or buy with the hope it make us shoot better). To say that a Carbon Barrel is an "insulator" and incinerating the metal liner is only true if the manufacturer uses an epoxy that inhibits the thermal transfer in the carbon. To say that a Carbon barrel reduces in heat caused by XX grains of powder is also not true. The heat introduced to the wear surface of the bore is independent of the outer construction of the barrel. Several people have tested round counts on both types of barrels and found similar wear on both resulting in a similar barrel life with similar use. Accuracy has been an issue for some steel and carbon barrel makers.....they usually struggle until the figure it out. There are both carbon barrels and steel barrels that shoot marvelously. make your own conclusion. The OP was seeking information about accuracy and weight. As has been discussed many times over the mechanics of fluting a barrel (very minor effect on thermal transfer......and yes it is ALL steel...weird). The stiffness of a barrel has great effects on the harmonics of the barrel. The inherent stiffness compared to weight is highly favoring carbon barrels, though not saying it is necessarily stiffer than an all steel barrel as I have not actually measured it with two comparable barrels. HOWEVER, My 28" 338 proof barrel is significantly more stiff than my 28" 338 fluted medium palma barrel. Even more interesting is they both weigh the same. I am hanging a "noise snuffer" on the end of the tube so I wanted to add a little stiffness without the extra baggage. The gain almost lies in the ability to have a silly thick barrel that is extremely stiff (thick steel barrels are still to) but it is light weight like my thin fluted mountain whistly groovy barrel (anyone else notice their fluted barrel whistles a lot in the wind?). This gain comes at a significant cost $$$$, but to some it is worth it. The "dimensional stability" and "Stiffness" is what i paid an extra $300 over my "not so rapid cooling" fluted barrel. Accuracy for both barrels is exactly what I want so I love them both. This has been quite fun to jump in on. I encourage more learning and studying the properties and mechanics of materials. Manufacturers spend a tremendous amount of money engineering tools and materials to provide a result that will support their passion to provide manufacturing in the firearms industry(yes this means sales). Figure out what your priorities for a rifle build are and base your decision on that. If you base your decision based on cooling rates I would suggest selling your Hawkeye and buying a Texas Instrument a torch and spend way less on precision machining. Thanks, Dan [/QUOTE]
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