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Flat shooting Elk gun?
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<blockquote data-quote="Brent" data-source="post: 68467" data-attributes="member: 99"><p>Day before yesterday we fit a new Wyatt centerfeed mag box (4.0 internal length for Rem.700) in a friends Win M70. which someone had previously chambered in 378 Wby. The bullets were seated way deep to fit in the previous box but now have plenty of room to move forward, plenty far enough so that the belt on the bottom cartridge gets ahead of the top cartridge and makes for less than smooth feeding. It definitely works, and once he seats the bullets out where they can be seated now it can help but, they canelure will be away from the case mouth a bit too far to crimp. Still, the beltless Rigby case would offer much less hastle loading through the top and also feed smoother ta boot. </p><p></p><p>The other fact that the belt lies "above" the case web, unsupported by the casehead's strength, it expands and can not be sized down with a standard die, also the very front edge ahead of the belt is not able to be sized down enough and creates problems too. The Rigby, or any beltless case does not suffer short life from this because it can be kept sized properly. In general, these problems only surface if loads are hotter than 63,000 PSI or so, but the problem will get worse and worse if loads are just a little hotter than that. So, after the initial firing, monitoring further belt expansion is a REALLY wise thing to do if you're concerned with case life. If it expands in the slightest after the initial forming, it will keep expanding by about the same amount each time until it will no longer chamber, then the case is toast unless you make a die to size the belts back down. It's up to the individual if the hastle is worth it, kind of like neck turning, forming brass for a wildcat is etc.</p><p></p><p>If you get more than 5 firings on the 338/378 Wby case I'd say you're running less than 65 Kpsi. </p><p></p><p>I believe the other problem with belted cases can be almost as bad as setting the shoulder back too far on a beltless case, although works the brass a little different and may not suffer from sudden casehead seperation, they will weaken and crack very rapidly.</p><p>This problem with belted cases is, if you only bump the shoulder back far enough to just chamber them, you do not end up sizing down the area immediately ahead of the belt because the die isn't screwed down far enough, so it gets tight there now. You turn the die down and size right up tight to the belt and you end up pushing the shoulder back way further than you would have needed on a beltless case, then cases begin to stretch QUICKLY and seperate at the pressure ring. First time this results in you ripping a casehead off on extraction and you can't chamber another round you'll realize that only hunting with new brass is the sure way to go if it's belted.</p><p></p><p>I don't really care what it is, I just dislike ****-poor designs, and I really like a good one. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Brent, post: 68467, member: 99"] Day before yesterday we fit a new Wyatt centerfeed mag box (4.0 internal length for Rem.700) in a friends Win M70. which someone had previously chambered in 378 Wby. The bullets were seated way deep to fit in the previous box but now have plenty of room to move forward, plenty far enough so that the belt on the bottom cartridge gets ahead of the top cartridge and makes for less than smooth feeding. It definitely works, and once he seats the bullets out where they can be seated now it can help but, they canelure will be away from the case mouth a bit too far to crimp. Still, the beltless Rigby case would offer much less hastle loading through the top and also feed smoother ta boot. The other fact that the belt lies "above" the case web, unsupported by the casehead's strength, it expands and can not be sized down with a standard die, also the very front edge ahead of the belt is not able to be sized down enough and creates problems too. The Rigby, or any beltless case does not suffer short life from this because it can be kept sized properly. In general, these problems only surface if loads are hotter than 63,000 PSI or so, but the problem will get worse and worse if loads are just a little hotter than that. So, after the initial firing, monitoring further belt expansion is a REALLY wise thing to do if you're concerned with case life. If it expands in the slightest after the initial forming, it will keep expanding by about the same amount each time until it will no longer chamber, then the case is toast unless you make a die to size the belts back down. It's up to the individual if the hastle is worth it, kind of like neck turning, forming brass for a wildcat is etc. If you get more than 5 firings on the 338/378 Wby case I'd say you're running less than 65 Kpsi. I believe the other problem with belted cases can be almost as bad as setting the shoulder back too far on a beltless case, although works the brass a little different and may not suffer from sudden casehead seperation, they will weaken and crack very rapidly. This problem with belted cases is, if you only bump the shoulder back far enough to just chamber them, you do not end up sizing down the area immediately ahead of the belt because the die isn't screwed down far enough, so it gets tight there now. You turn the die down and size right up tight to the belt and you end up pushing the shoulder back way further than you would have needed on a beltless case, then cases begin to stretch QUICKLY and seperate at the pressure ring. First time this results in you ripping a casehead off on extraction and you can't chamber another round you'll realize that only hunting with new brass is the sure way to go if it's belted. I don't really care what it is, I just dislike ****-poor designs, and I really like a good one. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [/QUOTE]
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