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Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics
finally learning the importance of seating depth
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<blockquote data-quote="Mikecr" data-source="post: 1735182" data-attributes="member: 1521"><p>You don't really 'tune' with coarse seating. You tune with powder.</p><p>That is, you can't just pull a powder charge out of your butt, and tune the gun with seating alone. In contrast, you can fully tune a gun with powder, regardless of seating.</p><p>Yet, seating can open and close grouping way way more than powder. Anyone who's ever done FULL SEATING TESTING (Berger's recommended) has seen it.</p><p>And this shows seating and powder being separate and different.</p><p></p><p>Best coarse seating is <u>prerequisite</u> to best results. If you're not in tune while at best seating, then overall results won't be the best possible. This is usually obvious.</p><p>But if you're not at best seating while at tune, you may think you're results are best possible. Problem being, there is a chance that it's not.</p><p></p><p>Again, finding best coarse seating is not tuning. In fact, it's best done as far from tune as possible. Seating testing is for clearing a detrimental condition -that is bad seating for the bullet/throat. Change either one, bullet or throat, start over to find best seating.</p><p>This, having nothing to do with powder.</p><p></p><p>20+yrs ago I argued this with BR folks who insisted that VLDs had to be in the lands to shoot. I tried to get them to understand that best seating could anywhere else. They just needed to do full seating testing to see it. And while everyone claimed they did seating testing, and that everything shot best in or near lands, the truth was that they never did <u>full</u> seating testing -ever.</p><p>What they were doing was pulling a starting seating out of their butts(assuming it needed to be close to lands), then tuning with powder, and tweaking seating in a narrow sense while at that tune.</p><p>Well tune is an amplified condition, and tweaking seating much from that serves to cause a falling out of that condition. Something always seen as going in a bad direction. So within ~20thou of seating they had tuned at, they gave up, declaring BS on my notions. After all, 20thou seemed a huge way to go with seating, and things never got 'better'.</p><p></p><p>I realize that for ~100yrs everyone tuned with powder, and tweaked seating for shaping. And all of them had guessed about initial seating to begin. Relatively few did a broad, full seating testing to begin.</p><p>I couldn't get anyone to do it.</p><p>It wasn't until Berger put out a seating testing procedure that the light bulbs started coming on. But some bulbs are just not lighting I guess.</p><p>So I suppose Berger will have to explain to folks what seating is actually doing, before more folks understand what I've been saying for decades..</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mikecr, post: 1735182, member: 1521"] You don't really 'tune' with coarse seating. You tune with powder. That is, you can't just pull a powder charge out of your butt, and tune the gun with seating alone. In contrast, you can fully tune a gun with powder, regardless of seating. Yet, seating can open and close grouping way way more than powder. Anyone who's ever done FULL SEATING TESTING (Berger's recommended) has seen it. And this shows seating and powder being separate and different. Best coarse seating is [U]prerequisite[/U] to best results. If you're not in tune while at best seating, then overall results won't be the best possible. This is usually obvious. But if you're not at best seating while at tune, you may think you're results are best possible. Problem being, there is a chance that it's not. Again, finding best coarse seating is not tuning. In fact, it's best done as far from tune as possible. Seating testing is for clearing a detrimental condition -that is bad seating for the bullet/throat. Change either one, bullet or throat, start over to find best seating. This, having nothing to do with powder. 20+yrs ago I argued this with BR folks who insisted that VLDs had to be in the lands to shoot. I tried to get them to understand that best seating could anywhere else. They just needed to do full seating testing to see it. And while everyone claimed they did seating testing, and that everything shot best in or near lands, the truth was that they never did [U]full[/U] seating testing -ever. What they were doing was pulling a starting seating out of their butts(assuming it needed to be close to lands), then tuning with powder, and tweaking seating in a narrow sense while at that tune. Well tune is an amplified condition, and tweaking seating much from that serves to cause a falling out of that condition. Something always seen as going in a bad direction. So within ~20thou of seating they had tuned at, they gave up, declaring BS on my notions. After all, 20thou seemed a huge way to go with seating, and things never got 'better'. I realize that for ~100yrs everyone tuned with powder, and tweaked seating for shaping. And all of them had guessed about initial seating to begin. Relatively few did a broad, full seating testing to begin. I couldn't get anyone to do it. It wasn't until Berger put out a seating testing procedure that the light bulbs started coming on. But some bulbs are just not lighting I guess. So I suppose Berger will have to explain to folks what seating is actually doing, before more folks understand what I've been saying for decades.. [/QUOTE]
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finally learning the importance of seating depth
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