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Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Reloading
Excessive bullet run out. How to remedy?
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<blockquote data-quote="Trickymissfit" data-source="post: 672667" data-attributes="member: 25383"><p>I've posted here more than once that we couldn't afford a gauge that used precision ball bearings to locate the case off of. I've seen ABEC 7's and 9's, and have bought a few in the past for work projects. There is one other type that has ball bearings but they don't rotate, but who sells them escaped me at the moment. A non rotating ball bearing setup would easilly be best. </p><p> </p><p>Vee blocks are simple, but also not perfect. As they wear they will gain error. And they are only as good as the machining processes. To me it looks like a case holder similar to what Wilson uses in their trimmer might be the best way. They use generic 1020 steel, so you really want something better (like Thompson Rod or Versalloy with a ground finish) You could rotate this in a precision vee block that had an attached backstop. Or get even fancier. Another problem with vee blocks is that the work off an area contact rather than line contact. For some that dosn't mean a whole lot (I never worried too much about it myself)</p><p> </p><p>Picture a dial indicator stem like the one Sinclair, Hornaday, Redding, and a few others use. It works off a gear & rack inside that is also spring loaded. Works pretty good in one direction, but any error machined in the gear & rack is also in the clock mechanism turning the dial. The ones with a built in encoder are far better. Using one accurately depends on how well the tip of the stem is tangent with the object it rests against. The really prefer to be vertical or horizontal, but will work Ok at an angle as long as they are aligned tangently with the O.D. You cannot ever rotate one!The next problem is that there is clearence in the bushing that guides the stem, and any lateral movement is error. If you must use one try to find one with less than .25" of travel, and better yet a jewelled one. A wand type indicator can be built with a single or dual spring setup on the anvil. Most are single, but a dual is slightly better. Is better at handeling slight missalignments on the rotating surface than the other (seven degrees is considered perfect by the way) Accuracey in them varies from brand to brand. Most all are in the one percent range while most gear & rack indicators are 10% unless jewelled. The Neco comes with a GEM brand indicator. They're built like a tank (otherwise I'd have destroyed a dozen of them!). Like the Last Word (a little better than the GEM) you can change the anvil easilly as they just snap in place, and come in several sized tips. The Best Test and Interrapid indicators are known as Cadillacs, and are zero lag units. Not cheap, but you often get what you pay for. In between these two and the last word we have the well known Federals, Mitutoyos, and Fowlers. They are plenty good enough for most anything we'll ever use them for unless we are rotating them. A five tenths Federal will do everything well, and hold it's accuracey for a long time. There are some use specific indicators that are even more accurate, but don't fall inline with our wants and needs. The most accurate indicator I've ever used was the electronic Federal, but there use is very limited. Rhan also sells a .000020" dial indicator, and if you need that accuracey it's the one to have. Most all of us here could do OK with a Last Word or a Gem (I own a half dozen last time I looked), but I like five tenths indicators a lot. Lastly, if you desire to change the anvil (some call it a stem but on a wand type it's an anvil) try to keep it the same length. Otherwise you'll stack up error internally (I doubut we see much). In otherwords five tenths is no longer five tenths. </p><p>gary</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Trickymissfit, post: 672667, member: 25383"] I've posted here more than once that we couldn't afford a gauge that used precision ball bearings to locate the case off of. I've seen ABEC 7's and 9's, and have bought a few in the past for work projects. There is one other type that has ball bearings but they don't rotate, but who sells them escaped me at the moment. A non rotating ball bearing setup would easilly be best. Vee blocks are simple, but also not perfect. As they wear they will gain error. And they are only as good as the machining processes. To me it looks like a case holder similar to what Wilson uses in their trimmer might be the best way. They use generic 1020 steel, so you really want something better (like Thompson Rod or Versalloy with a ground finish) You could rotate this in a precision vee block that had an attached backstop. Or get even fancier. Another problem with vee blocks is that the work off an area contact rather than line contact. For some that dosn't mean a whole lot (I never worried too much about it myself) Picture a dial indicator stem like the one Sinclair, Hornaday, Redding, and a few others use. It works off a gear & rack inside that is also spring loaded. Works pretty good in one direction, but any error machined in the gear & rack is also in the clock mechanism turning the dial. The ones with a built in encoder are far better. Using one accurately depends on how well the tip of the stem is tangent with the object it rests against. The really prefer to be vertical or horizontal, but will work Ok at an angle as long as they are aligned tangently with the O.D. You cannot ever rotate one!The next problem is that there is clearence in the bushing that guides the stem, and any lateral movement is error. If you must use one try to find one with less than .25" of travel, and better yet a jewelled one. A wand type indicator can be built with a single or dual spring setup on the anvil. Most are single, but a dual is slightly better. Is better at handeling slight missalignments on the rotating surface than the other (seven degrees is considered perfect by the way) Accuracey in them varies from brand to brand. Most all are in the one percent range while most gear & rack indicators are 10% unless jewelled. The Neco comes with a GEM brand indicator. They're built like a tank (otherwise I'd have destroyed a dozen of them!). Like the Last Word (a little better than the GEM) you can change the anvil easilly as they just snap in place, and come in several sized tips. The Best Test and Interrapid indicators are known as Cadillacs, and are zero lag units. Not cheap, but you often get what you pay for. In between these two and the last word we have the well known Federals, Mitutoyos, and Fowlers. They are plenty good enough for most anything we'll ever use them for unless we are rotating them. A five tenths Federal will do everything well, and hold it's accuracey for a long time. There are some use specific indicators that are even more accurate, but don't fall inline with our wants and needs. The most accurate indicator I've ever used was the electronic Federal, but there use is very limited. Rhan also sells a .000020" dial indicator, and if you need that accuracey it's the one to have. Most all of us here could do OK with a Last Word or a Gem (I own a half dozen last time I looked), but I like five tenths indicators a lot. Lastly, if you desire to change the anvil (some call it a stem but on a wand type it's an anvil) try to keep it the same length. Otherwise you'll stack up error internally (I doubut we see much). In otherwords five tenths is no longer five tenths. gary [/QUOTE]
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Excessive bullet run out. How to remedy?
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