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Eradicate the Wolf???!
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<blockquote data-quote="Gcan" data-source="post: 1528335" data-attributes="member: 102867"><p>To get back to the purpose of this thread. In my opinion there is simply no logical or scientific argument that can be made to justify the wolf or any pack predators in the lower 48. For the same reason we do not need wagon wheels or buggy whips any longer, we do not NEED wolves. Nature does not need wolves. Does anyone think the elk objects to hunting but is happier at being ripped apart while knowing it is fulfilling the natural order of things? Dead is dead. I have tried to read all of the posts and have yet to find a single reasoned argument for wolves. For those who just think God wants them or that wolves provide an answer to unbalance, man is the cause of and answer to unbalance. And as for God, he is God. If it was important to him, I believe we would be hip deep in wolves like the Egyptians were in frogs and locust. Period. There is no going back to 50,000 years ago. From the first time man set foot on North America or Asia or Africa his presence affected nature. When gun toting white men decided to populate North America the idea that nature was still a force for balance evaporated. The very idea that we can somehow restore a natural system that 500 years ago depended entirely on our absence is childish. Yes, we can right some wrongs. We can introduce Peregrine Falcons into our cities to control pigeons. We created the pigeon problem entirely where no centralized native populations previously existed and no predators had been necessary. We also own the zebra clam and lamprey eel. But as Ive stated, when it comes to game species, man is nature's apex predator. We always have been. That was God's plan too. Or if you believe in evolution then our ascension was inevitable. The wolf is unnecessary and out of balance in this world, as much as a T-Rex would be today. What people like to refer to as nature or balance in 2018 is a synonym for "Zoo". America is a zoo from sea to shining sea. None of it is real. It is all contrived, cultivated and managed. There are fences in zoos for a reason. We don't put the buffalo, or humans, in with the lions for a reason. We all intuitively understand that. Maybe is a scale or proportion thing that makes it hard to accept, but no matter how you look at it, America, and our very world is a game preserve. Man's very presence is anathema to "Natural Nature". This may sound clinical and cynical; perhaps it is. We have elk and moose walking our streets and deer eating our shrubs because we made it so. We manage it to be so. How can we introduce wolves into Yellow Stone and not see the outcome? We don't allow hunting there, yet proponents expect those wolves will remain on the reservation? Unless we can teach wolves to read and respect our laws, or perhaps take birth control it is just plain arrogant to think we can use them as a tool, or that the very artificial manicured natural world we have created can abide them. They only thing we can be assured of is that wolves will act according to their nature, which is not our nature. Wolves and coyotes will move to and go where they like. They will kill whatever makes survival possible for them with the least risk and they will have no consideration for us or anything else. Wolves are not party to human cultural standards or conventions. And that is as it should be. Anyone wishing a world where all critters are cuddly, or wanting to lay down with the beasts should get to heaven as quickly as possible. I hear it's all the rage there. </p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm out.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Gcan, post: 1528335, member: 102867"] To get back to the purpose of this thread. In my opinion there is simply no logical or scientific argument that can be made to justify the wolf or any pack predators in the lower 48. For the same reason we do not need wagon wheels or buggy whips any longer, we do not NEED wolves. Nature does not need wolves. Does anyone think the elk objects to hunting but is happier at being ripped apart while knowing it is fulfilling the natural order of things? Dead is dead. I have tried to read all of the posts and have yet to find a single reasoned argument for wolves. For those who just think God wants them or that wolves provide an answer to unbalance, man is the cause of and answer to unbalance. And as for God, he is God. If it was important to him, I believe we would be hip deep in wolves like the Egyptians were in frogs and locust. Period. There is no going back to 50,000 years ago. From the first time man set foot on North America or Asia or Africa his presence affected nature. When gun toting white men decided to populate North America the idea that nature was still a force for balance evaporated. The very idea that we can somehow restore a natural system that 500 years ago depended entirely on our absence is childish. Yes, we can right some wrongs. We can introduce Peregrine Falcons into our cities to control pigeons. We created the pigeon problem entirely where no centralized native populations previously existed and no predators had been necessary. We also own the zebra clam and lamprey eel. But as Ive stated, when it comes to game species, man is nature’s apex predator. We always have been. That was God’s plan too. Or if you believe in evolution then our ascension was inevitable. The wolf is unnecessary and out of balance in this world, as much as a T-Rex would be today. What people like to refer to as nature or balance in 2018 is a synonym for “Zoo”. America is a zoo from sea to shining sea. None of it is real. It is all contrived, cultivated and managed. There are fences in zoos for a reason. We don’t put the buffalo, or humans, in with the lions for a reason. We all intuitively understand that. Maybe is a scale or proportion thing that makes it hard to accept, but no matter how you look at it, America, and our very world is a game preserve. Man’s very presence is anathema to “Natural Nature”. This may sound clinical and cynical; perhaps it is. We have elk and moose walking our streets and deer eating our shrubs because we made it so. We manage it to be so. How can we introduce wolves into Yellow Stone and not see the outcome? We don’t allow hunting there, yet proponents expect those wolves will remain on the reservation? Unless we can teach wolves to read and respect our laws, or perhaps take birth control it is just plain arrogant to think we can use them as a tool, or that the very artificial manicured natural world we have created can abide them. They only thing we can be assured of is that wolves will act according to their nature, which is not our nature. Wolves and coyotes will move to and go where they like. They will kill whatever makes survival possible for them with the least risk and they will have no consideration for us or anything else. Wolves are not party to human cultural standards or conventions. And that is as it should be. Anyone wishing a world where all critters are cuddly, or wanting to lay down with the beasts should get to heaven as quickly as possible. I hear it’s all the rage there. I’m out. [/QUOTE]
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