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Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Reloading
Do you anneal your cases?
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<blockquote data-quote="Trickymissfit" data-source="post: 436365" data-attributes="member: 25383"><p>the first time I ever heard about annealing cases was about twenty years ago, and at the time their ways of doing it were crude. Some guys used molten lead, and others used a torch. I even say guys standing cases up in water to their shoulders in an oven set at 400 degrees. I did nothing, as I couln't see this working. Later I was going thru some issues with split necks on a 22-250, and started to do some research. In one of my heat treat manuals they called out annealing brass in stages starting at 400 degrees and moving up to 600 degrees. They cautioned the user to be carefull not to actually burn the metal with over saturation of the heat. Now I'm more or less confused, as all my work has been with irons and a lot of space aged alloys. Rarely working with strait brass. To take it deeper, most brass alloys I worked with were bronze alloys (Ampco, etc.). So I made a few inquireys to see what other folks felt. Most of these guys were meatalurgists, and they all said the samething; exactly whatkind of brass alloy are you using? So I then took a few cases and cut them up, and made them flat. Sent them to the lab just to find out what I had. I soon learned that the cases were not strait brass, but an alloy containing several elements (one was close to being known as bronze!) Now I know what we had to a certain extent, and called Vito. He laughed at me, and said you already know the answer! (Vito taught me most everything I know about metalurgy). Vito said to start with a temp of about 450 degrees, and then send the piece to the lab for a granular structure test. Then do another about 50 degrees higher and one at 400 degrees. (remember the metal is very thin). All worked quite well for some odd reason! I then tried melted lead in a lead pot, and got very good results. The temp was about 430 degrees according to the read out. It actually did better than the otherways because the heat was very controlled and saturation was easy to controll. Then I said hey I can do betterand faster. So I tried dipping the necks in liquid salt for a few seconds. Instantly ruining each case! The lead pot was dangerous because of the quench in water. Well my welder said to try a temp stick in an open flame. I started with a 400 degree stick, and it worked very well. Later at a gunsmith's shop I see this 3/8th" thick plate with a bunch of pins sticking out of it. I asked him what it was, and he told me that's how he annealed cases. Guess what he used two temp sticks like I did; 400 and 450 degrees. I told him about my findings in the past, and he then told me what the lab had told me exactly to the main alloys in the brass. About three or four years later P.S. magazine showed a photo of one similar to his and mine (I made four different sizes). That's how I came about my method, but there's some more to this. I also learned that the thinner the metal, the more precise you have to be in the temp and saturation. I also learned that the water cannot be cold enough, and you will have to add ice cubes every now and then. I did try a -50 degree freezer once, but it didn't work. </p><p> </p><p>The only serious tech articles on case annealing I've ever seen were in Shooting Times and P.S. several years ago. I seem to recall reading something written by Parker Ackley, and I'll check to see if I saved it for you. I'm sure there are others. Most of what I've learned was from others a hell of a lot smarter than I am, and also about 40 years of work (Vito was regarded as one of the goto guys in this country for 50 years).</p><p>gary</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Trickymissfit, post: 436365, member: 25383"] the first time I ever heard about annealing cases was about twenty years ago, and at the time their ways of doing it were crude. Some guys used molten lead, and others used a torch. I even say guys standing cases up in water to their shoulders in an oven set at 400 degrees. I did nothing, as I couln't see this working. Later I was going thru some issues with split necks on a 22-250, and started to do some research. In one of my heat treat manuals they called out annealing brass in stages starting at 400 degrees and moving up to 600 degrees. They cautioned the user to be carefull not to actually burn the metal with over saturation of the heat. Now I'm more or less confused, as all my work has been with irons and a lot of space aged alloys. Rarely working with strait brass. To take it deeper, most brass alloys I worked with were bronze alloys (Ampco, etc.). So I made a few inquireys to see what other folks felt. Most of these guys were meatalurgists, and they all said the samething; exactly whatkind of brass alloy are you using? So I then took a few cases and cut them up, and made them flat. Sent them to the lab just to find out what I had. I soon learned that the cases were not strait brass, but an alloy containing several elements (one was close to being known as bronze!) Now I know what we had to a certain extent, and called Vito. He laughed at me, and said you already know the answer! (Vito taught me most everything I know about metalurgy). Vito said to start with a temp of about 450 degrees, and then send the piece to the lab for a granular structure test. Then do another about 50 degrees higher and one at 400 degrees. (remember the metal is very thin). All worked quite well for some odd reason! I then tried melted lead in a lead pot, and got very good results. The temp was about 430 degrees according to the read out. It actually did better than the otherways because the heat was very controlled and saturation was easy to controll. Then I said hey I can do betterand faster. So I tried dipping the necks in liquid salt for a few seconds. Instantly ruining each case! The lead pot was dangerous because of the quench in water. Well my welder said to try a temp stick in an open flame. I started with a 400 degree stick, and it worked very well. Later at a gunsmith's shop I see this 3/8th" thick plate with a bunch of pins sticking out of it. I asked him what it was, and he told me that's how he annealed cases. Guess what he used two temp sticks like I did; 400 and 450 degrees. I told him about my findings in the past, and he then told me what the lab had told me exactly to the main alloys in the brass. About three or four years later P.S. magazine showed a photo of one similar to his and mine (I made four different sizes). That's how I came about my method, but there's some more to this. I also learned that the thinner the metal, the more precise you have to be in the temp and saturation. I also learned that the water cannot be cold enough, and you will have to add ice cubes every now and then. I did try a -50 degree freezer once, but it didn't work. The only serious tech articles on case annealing I've ever seen were in Shooting Times and P.S. several years ago. I seem to recall reading something written by Parker Ackley, and I'll check to see if I saved it for you. I'm sure there are others. Most of what I've learned was from others a hell of a lot smarter than I am, and also about 40 years of work (Vito was regarded as one of the goto guys in this country for 50 years). gary [/QUOTE]
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Do you anneal your cases?
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