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Cutting Edge Bullet Kills
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<blockquote data-quote="bigngreen" data-source="post: 697226" data-attributes="member: 13632"><p>LTLR, we hunt primarily elk and we kill a lot of elk, in one of the best units for killing elk in MT me and buddies killed 15% of the elk killed in that unit both during archery and rifle season, we kill a lot of elk and I cut a lot of elk! I used to shoot and every one I shot with used to use Barnes and I've taken a pile of elk with copper bullets from a lot of cals and I can without question say that I've seen far more elk lost shot with a copper bullet than a Berger, in fact the last guy that lost an elk with a Barnes is going to be over and we're getting is rifle fixed up with Bergers because he's flat tired of one of us having to shoot his elk or cutting it's throat. I personally have not lost an elk but I've came very close with Barnes on a few occasions, I've had two Barnes 168 TSX from a 300 WBY inside 500 yards fail to penetrate a cow elk shoulder, I've seen the same bullet also fail out of an 06 fail to penetrate an elk shoulder at 300 yards, we had a cow elk fall over dead after 30 min that we were positive it was not hit due to zero expansion with a double lung shot, last year one guy made a poor shot on a cow and it was lost but if he would have had a bullet that opened and shed weight it would have been meat in the freezer.</p><p>Last year I deliberately stuck a second bullet through the heavy front shoulder bone on a bull with a 165 VLD from my 270 WSM to see how it compared to the 168 Barnes I had shot, the VLD cleanly broke the heaviest bone, ribs then blew a baseball size hole in the front of the lungs and exited out the front of the of shoulder, the wound channel was just like the one that hit his liver an one lung. He could not hardly move from the first shot because the bullet opened up and shedded some weight right into his liver and back of one lung, had it been a solid copper bullet I would have faced some serious bad times in the timber! For me the Barnes offer me a more restrictive shot angle and shot placement and I don't like that, I want a margin for error and the VLD had given me that window.</p><p></p><p>The only reason I'm posting this in the thread is your throwing out some info that is just not what me and friends have seen in a lot of serious elk killing, our elk loss rate flat went to zero after moving to VLD's, period, and the wound channels through the animal have been so similar that is unreal! I hunted two years with Bergers in the chamber and Barnes in the mag just waiting for the Berger to leave me stranded, I honestly did not want them to work but it never happened and I have never been more confident in any bullet on elk at any range than I am now with the Berger or Matrix VLD's and I was a very hard sell on them.</p><p></p><p>I still buy loads of copper because I can't help it but I have yet to find one that out performed the VLD's I'm using so they have yet to get game time, I have yet to get a CE to shoot in rifles that have been easy to load a Berger for and I have yet to have a VLD be difficult to load and all my rifles shot copper bullet before and now thee best groups from all of them are with VLD's.</p><p></p><p>I'm not trying to crap on you because we seem to look for the same qualities in an elk bullet but we've found them in opposite bullets and had very good hunts and kills with them gun)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="bigngreen, post: 697226, member: 13632"] LTLR, we hunt primarily elk and we kill a lot of elk, in one of the best units for killing elk in MT me and buddies killed 15% of the elk killed in that unit both during archery and rifle season, we kill a lot of elk and I cut a lot of elk! I used to shoot and every one I shot with used to use Barnes and I've taken a pile of elk with copper bullets from a lot of cals and I can without question say that I've seen far more elk lost shot with a copper bullet than a Berger, in fact the last guy that lost an elk with a Barnes is going to be over and we're getting is rifle fixed up with Bergers because he's flat tired of one of us having to shoot his elk or cutting it's throat. I personally have not lost an elk but I've came very close with Barnes on a few occasions, I've had two Barnes 168 TSX from a 300 WBY inside 500 yards fail to penetrate a cow elk shoulder, I've seen the same bullet also fail out of an 06 fail to penetrate an elk shoulder at 300 yards, we had a cow elk fall over dead after 30 min that we were positive it was not hit due to zero expansion with a double lung shot, last year one guy made a poor shot on a cow and it was lost but if he would have had a bullet that opened and shed weight it would have been meat in the freezer. Last year I deliberately stuck a second bullet through the heavy front shoulder bone on a bull with a 165 VLD from my 270 WSM to see how it compared to the 168 Barnes I had shot, the VLD cleanly broke the heaviest bone, ribs then blew a baseball size hole in the front of the lungs and exited out the front of the of shoulder, the wound channel was just like the one that hit his liver an one lung. He could not hardly move from the first shot because the bullet opened up and shedded some weight right into his liver and back of one lung, had it been a solid copper bullet I would have faced some serious bad times in the timber! For me the Barnes offer me a more restrictive shot angle and shot placement and I don't like that, I want a margin for error and the VLD had given me that window. The only reason I'm posting this in the thread is your throwing out some info that is just not what me and friends have seen in a lot of serious elk killing, our elk loss rate flat went to zero after moving to VLD's, period, and the wound channels through the animal have been so similar that is unreal! I hunted two years with Bergers in the chamber and Barnes in the mag just waiting for the Berger to leave me stranded, I honestly did not want them to work but it never happened and I have never been more confident in any bullet on elk at any range than I am now with the Berger or Matrix VLD's and I was a very hard sell on them. I still buy loads of copper because I can't help it but I have yet to find one that out performed the VLD's I'm using so they have yet to get game time, I have yet to get a CE to shoot in rifles that have been easy to load a Berger for and I have yet to have a VLD be difficult to load and all my rifles shot copper bullet before and now thee best groups from all of them are with VLD's. I'm not trying to crap on you because we seem to look for the same qualities in an elk bullet but we've found them in opposite bullets and had very good hunts and kills with them gun) [/QUOTE]
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