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Custom rifle cost going to the moon , when does it end ?
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<blockquote data-quote="bigngreen" data-source="post: 1893116" data-attributes="member: 13632"><p>I really don't know how to take that, I don't think you know what it really cost to start a business right now.</p><p>I MIGHT get a 10-15% discount on an action IF I drop a $15,000+ order, then I pay shipping and have a lot of time wrapped up in that order and checking it over and logging it in. I lost money ordering action for customers so I went to them ordering them all, one action maker I actually get a better discount as a member of a certain range than I would at their top tier gunsmith discount!!</p><p></p><p>Barrels, are about the same discount so 20-30 dollars but again there is shipping on them all, and I have to hit a 3000 order to really start even seeing that. There is phone time getting the order right, checking the order progress then QC all the barrels and hope and pray I ordered the flavor of the month contour and twist rate. I generally used to sell of any unused barrels and I'd only recover about 75% and I had to pay shipping.</p><p></p><p>Stocks, these suck, ordering blows then riding some manufactures to get something kicked out to you and again a large order to qualify for at MOST a 15% range and again you pay shipping, then inevitably your tweaking an inlet or paint and your again sitting on inventory. Best discount is on a flat top but for the small shop that brings a whole other level of suck but you may have to run less inventory since you can cover more with fewer stocks.</p><p></p><p>Those are what people think about when they think gun smiths are killing it but they forget hundreds of dollars of other stuff like bottom metal, screws, mag boxes, mounts, things that most of use can't buy in large enough quantities that many just buy from Brownells or Midway.</p><p></p><p>So now your sitting on payed for with cash probably about $26,000 worth of inventory and haven't built a gun, I MIGHT clear 10% on those parts so there is the POTENTIAL of $2600 so roughly enough to buy the parts for one more build.</p><p></p><p>Now lets put this sucker together as a shop build, inspect and measure action, throw a barrel in the lathe fit it up, pull out or $250+ reamer and gauge custom spec'ed cause that how we roll, tunes cranking having a good day we get that knocked out in three hours, flip it and brake it dialing in to the same zeros as the chamber and we knocked of another hour and a half ish.</p><p></p><p>Now we tear it all down and do a run over with the gauging and inspection tools, clean the cutting fluid out of everything torque it back up and lube it up for bedding, pull out and inspect the stock and make sure it's all good, never is so you spend an hour or better just touching things up, swap chucks on the lathe and custom make some pillars that set you for the perfect bedding thickness all over this takes a half hour ish.</p><p></p><p>Bedding, spend an hour taping and filling double and triple checking, spend a half hour mixing epoxy and getting it bubble free then an settle it in and spend another half hour cleaning it up. Next day throw your action puller on, I bed them tight enough I have to pull them, clean the lines up on the action and all the goop takes an other half hour at least then throw the stock in the mill and dial it in then spend some time creeping around it and cleaning up the bedding for a perfect look, clean out the pillars and check the fit.</p><p></p><p>Now we throw our trigger on, set it and safety check it takes a half hour then we have to tune up the fit in our stock so back to the mill. Then we drop in our bottom metal and it's fits like a butt so out comes the epoxy and we bed the bottom metal then paint it so the gaps don't show another half hour.</p><p></p><p>Fit up some sweet BAT action screws that make a built pop, takes another half hour, if it's slotted screws spend an hour fitting so the screws are straight in line with the rifle when tightened.</p><p>Now you drop in the mag box and assemble the follower takes a few minutes, make sure its free may have to grind a little on the belt sander. Then you make some dummy rounds and cram them in, first round goes half way up and the bottom one drops and jambs, or you get the first one feed and the second one pops out on the floor. Now you embark on a festival of hatred and self loathing while tuning the feed cycle, may be a few minute may be a couple hours and a few followers and spring later but you finally have it feeding like butter.</p><p></p><p>Bed the rail takes a half hour ish. Fit and clean everything back up and load up some ammo and hit the range, I like to throw the shop scope on so this turns into a half day adventure usually, take cleaning rods so I can say I broke it in properly, bring it back and clean it spotless and pull my optic and now tear it all apart and prep for Cerakote, this is a couple hour job min if everything stays oil free but it's not hard to have it turn into a half day job but it's worth it because it really make a built just come together. Mark the barrel take a half hour. Final fit takes a good hour, cleaning, getting screws right, feeding and lubing.</p><p></p><p>Now we gotta sell this thing, we are buried in costs and now were in it probably a little over 20 hours, so now your taking pictures getting it up on line for another couple hours. By the time you sell it you've spent a couple hours on the phone, got told how much prefits are and how cheap barrel made with Chinese steel are just as good as quality stress relieved domestic steel and that you should feel guilty making all that money on parts BUT you make the sale and only drop it 10%. Now you tuck it in a $200 dollar case that you sell at cost but don't recover your shipping on them. Head down to UPS and drop $60+ bones that you charged the customer at your cost, and you wait for the phone calls about it not shooting bullets it was not designed for, the chamber is to tight for my once fired Hornady brass, using a load that is no where near where it was spec'ed to run.</p><p></p><p>It's late so rough numbers most builds are rough 2300 in parts, we make maybe 10%. Labor 20+ hours easy in one gun, take 80 dollar an hour job shop rate and we see $1600 labor, so were just under $4000 into this thing, we tried to get the average $4600 dollars but knocked of 10% trying to get some cash flow so we gross rough numbers at 4100 ish dollars. So our big pot of Gold amounts to $300 ish on parts and the labor extra in our pocket, but we still are sitting on the parts for 9 more builds, paid the power, taxes, insurance, DOD, labor, building costs, machines and maintenance and the list keeps going. You can not build a business like this unless you can make it to either a volume builder OR your work demands a premium!!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="bigngreen, post: 1893116, member: 13632"] I really don't know how to take that, I don't think you know what it really cost to start a business right now. I MIGHT get a 10-15% discount on an action IF I drop a $15,000+ order, then I pay shipping and have a lot of time wrapped up in that order and checking it over and logging it in. I lost money ordering action for customers so I went to them ordering them all, one action maker I actually get a better discount as a member of a certain range than I would at their top tier gunsmith discount!! Barrels, are about the same discount so 20-30 dollars but again there is shipping on them all, and I have to hit a 3000 order to really start even seeing that. There is phone time getting the order right, checking the order progress then QC all the barrels and hope and pray I ordered the flavor of the month contour and twist rate. I generally used to sell of any unused barrels and I'd only recover about 75% and I had to pay shipping. Stocks, these suck, ordering blows then riding some manufactures to get something kicked out to you and again a large order to qualify for at MOST a 15% range and again you pay shipping, then inevitably your tweaking an inlet or paint and your again sitting on inventory. Best discount is on a flat top but for the small shop that brings a whole other level of suck but you may have to run less inventory since you can cover more with fewer stocks. Those are what people think about when they think gun smiths are killing it but they forget hundreds of dollars of other stuff like bottom metal, screws, mag boxes, mounts, things that most of use can't buy in large enough quantities that many just buy from Brownells or Midway. So now your sitting on payed for with cash probably about $26,000 worth of inventory and haven't built a gun, I MIGHT clear 10% on those parts so there is the POTENTIAL of $2600 so roughly enough to buy the parts for one more build. Now lets put this sucker together as a shop build, inspect and measure action, throw a barrel in the lathe fit it up, pull out or $250+ reamer and gauge custom spec'ed cause that how we roll, tunes cranking having a good day we get that knocked out in three hours, flip it and brake it dialing in to the same zeros as the chamber and we knocked of another hour and a half ish. Now we tear it all down and do a run over with the gauging and inspection tools, clean the cutting fluid out of everything torque it back up and lube it up for bedding, pull out and inspect the stock and make sure it's all good, never is so you spend an hour or better just touching things up, swap chucks on the lathe and custom make some pillars that set you for the perfect bedding thickness all over this takes a half hour ish. Bedding, spend an hour taping and filling double and triple checking, spend a half hour mixing epoxy and getting it bubble free then an settle it in and spend another half hour cleaning it up. Next day throw your action puller on, I bed them tight enough I have to pull them, clean the lines up on the action and all the goop takes an other half hour at least then throw the stock in the mill and dial it in then spend some time creeping around it and cleaning up the bedding for a perfect look, clean out the pillars and check the fit. Now we throw our trigger on, set it and safety check it takes a half hour then we have to tune up the fit in our stock so back to the mill. Then we drop in our bottom metal and it's fits like a butt so out comes the epoxy and we bed the bottom metal then paint it so the gaps don't show another half hour. Fit up some sweet BAT action screws that make a built pop, takes another half hour, if it's slotted screws spend an hour fitting so the screws are straight in line with the rifle when tightened. Now you drop in the mag box and assemble the follower takes a few minutes, make sure its free may have to grind a little on the belt sander. Then you make some dummy rounds and cram them in, first round goes half way up and the bottom one drops and jambs, or you get the first one feed and the second one pops out on the floor. Now you embark on a festival of hatred and self loathing while tuning the feed cycle, may be a few minute may be a couple hours and a few followers and spring later but you finally have it feeding like butter. Bed the rail takes a half hour ish. Fit and clean everything back up and load up some ammo and hit the range, I like to throw the shop scope on so this turns into a half day adventure usually, take cleaning rods so I can say I broke it in properly, bring it back and clean it spotless and pull my optic and now tear it all apart and prep for Cerakote, this is a couple hour job min if everything stays oil free but it's not hard to have it turn into a half day job but it's worth it because it really make a built just come together. Mark the barrel take a half hour. Final fit takes a good hour, cleaning, getting screws right, feeding and lubing. Now we gotta sell this thing, we are buried in costs and now were in it probably a little over 20 hours, so now your taking pictures getting it up on line for another couple hours. By the time you sell it you've spent a couple hours on the phone, got told how much prefits are and how cheap barrel made with Chinese steel are just as good as quality stress relieved domestic steel and that you should feel guilty making all that money on parts BUT you make the sale and only drop it 10%. Now you tuck it in a $200 dollar case that you sell at cost but don't recover your shipping on them. Head down to UPS and drop $60+ bones that you charged the customer at your cost, and you wait for the phone calls about it not shooting bullets it was not designed for, the chamber is to tight for my once fired Hornady brass, using a load that is no where near where it was spec'ed to run. It's late so rough numbers most builds are rough 2300 in parts, we make maybe 10%. Labor 20+ hours easy in one gun, take 80 dollar an hour job shop rate and we see $1600 labor, so were just under $4000 into this thing, we tried to get the average $4600 dollars but knocked of 10% trying to get some cash flow so we gross rough numbers at 4100 ish dollars. So our big pot of Gold amounts to $300 ish on parts and the labor extra in our pocket, but we still are sitting on the parts for 9 more builds, paid the power, taxes, insurance, DOD, labor, building costs, machines and maintenance and the list keeps going. You can not build a business like this unless you can make it to either a volume builder OR your work demands a premium!! [/QUOTE]
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