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Bubble level for rifle
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<blockquote data-quote="4mesh063" data-source="post: 40972" data-attributes="member: 941"><p>No Dave, I am not for one second disputing the 78" elevation, I don't care if you make it 100 for ease of the math. The Exaggerated numbers I was talking about, are the 8" at 500. Impossible. Yes, under test conditions you can do that. While TRYING TO HOLD that far off level. I will repost your own photos, modified to show you the real results of being disoriented. You have plainly tried to snow someone by rotating the Elk. Well, I don't care if the elk stands upright on his back feet, If my crosshairs are level, I'll kill him in 1 shot. Now, If you put the elk back where he was and rotate the crosshairs like you should have in the first place, you would plainly see that there is no way on Gods green earth anyone could miss that. I would have to have had an auto accident and severe head trauma on my way to hunting camp. </p><p></p><p>Your own photo of the elk shows them walking down a hill as you astutely pointed out to me. Yes, I noticed it was downhill , even though it was so slight. THAT IS LESS THAN a 6 degree angle they are walking down and YOU are telling me that there is a person who owns guns and shoots at game at ranges of 500 yards or more, who cannot distinguish DOUBLE THAT. PLUS OR MINUS. Someone out there looks at that picture in the wild and cannot tell if the elk are walking downhill, uphill, or on the level because they are disoriented? Please take thier gun away!</p><p></p><p>It is becoming obvoius that evolution of the elk and mule deer is going to be accelerated drastically. </p><p></p><p>I predict that in the states where You and Ric hunt, there will be no living game with 4 legs remaining as all of them will have had thier front legs shot off. Elk and Mulies are going to be biped mammals that walk upright by the year 2020! </p><p></p><p>Rotate the elk on a 90 and you'll see what they will look like in a few years!</p><p> </p><p>I'll post the photos later.</p><p></p><p>Brent:</p><p></p><p>I clearly said that IF you have a canted situation present and you have not noticed it. You should stay away from guns. If you cannot get your scope level within 6 degrees, stay away from guns! If you vary from shot to shot by 6 degrees of hold, stay away from guns. </p><p></p><p>Furthermore, If you hunt game at long range and you have no idea of where your gun shoots at long range, you also have not fired at long range, AND you have a 100 yard zero on your gun, AND you are going to attempt a FIRST SHOT KILL on game at long range by dialing an elevation on an untested rifle, you are an idiot and should not have a gun. </p><p></p><p>You have already plainly stated (in the above referenced thread) that you experienced this phenomenon while practicing with your hunting rifle. Thank you. You also have taken steps to eliminate it by fixing the out of level optics OR by adjusting for the error which you know to exist. Again, fine. PROBLEM SOLVED. You cannot possibly tell me that from that point forward, you have ever held your gun far enough off level to ever see it again! No way! </p><p></p><p>The errors you are looking for is derived from the difference between two situations. I will describe them clearly.</p><p></p><p>Practice: </p><p>I hold my gun and shoot at targets till I can hit what I am aiming at.</p><p></p><p>Real Life Hunting:</p><p>I hold my gun so differently from my practice that there is an insane variation in what I perceive as level because I happen to be outside and there could be hills there. I no longer can distinguish uphill or downhill within a mile from level because I am looking through the same scope that I had no trouble with the other day. </p><p></p><p>We are talking about crosshairs being level, not elk being more difficult to shoot and points of impact changing when they are on a hill. </p><p></p><p>Dave, I do not dispute the numbers you have for a 6 degree cant causing an 8" error at 500. Roughly. I have not checked them nor am I going to. I'll accept that, even though everyone else seems to think that it's significantly less. It matters not. If you are disoriented to the extent that you do not notice 1 degree of gun cant, stay away from drugs. They are bad for ya.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="4mesh063, post: 40972, member: 941"] No Dave, I am not for one second disputing the 78" elevation, I don't care if you make it 100 for ease of the math. The Exaggerated numbers I was talking about, are the 8" at 500. Impossible. Yes, under test conditions you can do that. While TRYING TO HOLD that far off level. I will repost your own photos, modified to show you the real results of being disoriented. You have plainly tried to snow someone by rotating the Elk. Well, I don't care if the elk stands upright on his back feet, If my crosshairs are level, I'll kill him in 1 shot. Now, If you put the elk back where he was and rotate the crosshairs like you should have in the first place, you would plainly see that there is no way on Gods green earth anyone could miss that. I would have to have had an auto accident and severe head trauma on my way to hunting camp. Your own photo of the elk shows them walking down a hill as you astutely pointed out to me. Yes, I noticed it was downhill , even though it was so slight. THAT IS LESS THAN a 6 degree angle they are walking down and YOU are telling me that there is a person who owns guns and shoots at game at ranges of 500 yards or more, who cannot distinguish DOUBLE THAT. PLUS OR MINUS. Someone out there looks at that picture in the wild and cannot tell if the elk are walking downhill, uphill, or on the level because they are disoriented? Please take thier gun away! It is becoming obvoius that evolution of the elk and mule deer is going to be accelerated drastically. I predict that in the states where You and Ric hunt, there will be no living game with 4 legs remaining as all of them will have had thier front legs shot off. Elk and Mulies are going to be biped mammals that walk upright by the year 2020! Rotate the elk on a 90 and you'll see what they will look like in a few years! I'll post the photos later. Brent: I clearly said that IF you have a canted situation present and you have not noticed it. You should stay away from guns. If you cannot get your scope level within 6 degrees, stay away from guns! If you vary from shot to shot by 6 degrees of hold, stay away from guns. Furthermore, If you hunt game at long range and you have no idea of where your gun shoots at long range, you also have not fired at long range, AND you have a 100 yard zero on your gun, AND you are going to attempt a FIRST SHOT KILL on game at long range by dialing an elevation on an untested rifle, you are an idiot and should not have a gun. You have already plainly stated (in the above referenced thread) that you experienced this phenomenon while practicing with your hunting rifle. Thank you. You also have taken steps to eliminate it by fixing the out of level optics OR by adjusting for the error which you know to exist. Again, fine. PROBLEM SOLVED. You cannot possibly tell me that from that point forward, you have ever held your gun far enough off level to ever see it again! No way! The errors you are looking for is derived from the difference between two situations. I will describe them clearly. Practice: I hold my gun and shoot at targets till I can hit what I am aiming at. Real Life Hunting: I hold my gun so differently from my practice that there is an insane variation in what I perceive as level because I happen to be outside and there could be hills there. I no longer can distinguish uphill or downhill within a mile from level because I am looking through the same scope that I had no trouble with the other day. We are talking about crosshairs being level, not elk being more difficult to shoot and points of impact changing when they are on a hill. Dave, I do not dispute the numbers you have for a 6 degree cant causing an 8" error at 500. Roughly. I have not checked them nor am I going to. I'll accept that, even though everyone else seems to think that it's significantly less. It matters not. If you are disoriented to the extent that you do not notice 1 degree of gun cant, stay away from drugs. They are bad for ya. [/QUOTE]
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