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Bore solvents - Interesting thread
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<blockquote data-quote="ricka0" data-source="post: 81663" data-attributes="member: 3086"><p>[ QUOTE ]</p><p> <font color="purple"> <strong>I wrote that BMG 50 was bore safe regardless of time exposure. </strong> </font> </p><p></p><p>[/ QUOTE ]</p><p>How do you know that? How do you know it's not causing your barrel to wear 1% faster? 3% faster, 7% faster? Please present evidence. </p><p>[ QUOTE ]</p><p> <font color="purple"> <strong></strong></p><p> <strong>You wrote that it was a myth- that it might be possible to bubble oxygen up through it and free some iron or nickle molecules from the bore. </strong> </font> </p><p></p><p>[/ QUOTE ] Sorry - you missed the science (as I did the first review with the chemists). The only way you can tell (without spending a million dollars) is to maximize the reactivity of ammonia - and you do this by keeping it oxygen rich. I wasn't suggesting that anyone would do this while cleaning their gun – it's a way to do a worst case test against ammonia in a few days – maybe 30 barrel lifetimes of cleaning in a few days. Suppose I do the worst case test and find no Fe or Ni atoms. That would prove conclusively that ammonia is safe for barrels (as long as you clean it out and apply oil). If the lab finds a few million Fe atoms then we would have to correlate this to real world cleaning and try to figure out the impact on barrel integrity.</p><p>[ QUOTE ]</p><p> <font color="purple"> <strong> While I'm facinated by your theory that a hot ice tray will freeze faster than a cold one, I can't for the life of me understand how that helps anyone get their gun shooting better. </strong> </font> </p><p></p><p>[/ QUOTE ] It served two purposes. It showed that it's possible for fluid to undergo (simultaneously) phase transitions on both energy spectrum's (evaporate and freeze). You implied it was not possible for Ammonia to be hygroscopic while it is evaporating. In fact it does both, but evaporation at STP is the dominant factor. It also shows that many things in science are counter-intuitive so we can't work from assumptions, intuition and obvious guesses. BTW, the ice cube question comes from Halliday, Resnick &amp; Merrill (the most popular university physics text in the world). I worked for Dr. Merrill as a undergrad. </p><p>[ QUOTE ]</p><p> <font color="purple"> <strong>theories going to help anybody shoot a smaller group or wack a deer? </strong> </font> </p><p></p><p>[/ QUOTE ]They won't – in fact they could make you shoot larger groups or miss wacking the deer if my research showed ammoniacal cleaning accelerated barrel wear by 3% - so folks over-reacted and skipped cleaning. My best guess is that the effects of Ammonia on gun barrels is minimal, and right now it's worth taking the risk. I'm only interested in finding the truth.</p><p>You are a good sport and I'm sure far more knowledgeable about guns, BR &amp; LR shooting than me. My friends tell me I should have been a trial lawyer. I'm 7/8 in traffic court &amp;#61514; I'm worked as a professional mathematician for Boeing where I published research – now I write software and publish computer science. And yes I need to spend more time shooting and less time on the internet. And for hopefully the last time, I'm not saying Montana Xtreme causes damage, I'm just saying as the chemists have said [ QUOTE ]</p><p> <font color="purple"> <strong> "no one has proven it's safe or shown it is damaging". </strong> </font> </p><p></p><p>[/ QUOTE ]</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ricka0, post: 81663, member: 3086"] [ QUOTE ] <font color="purple"> [b]I wrote that BMG 50 was bore safe regardless of time exposure. [/b] </font> [/ QUOTE ] How do you know that? How do you know it's not causing your barrel to wear 1% faster? 3% faster, 7% faster? Please present evidence. [ QUOTE ] <font color="purple"> [b] You wrote that it was a myth- that it might be possible to bubble oxygen up through it and free some iron or nickle molecules from the bore. [/b] </font> [/ QUOTE ] Sorry - you missed the science (as I did the first review with the chemists). The only way you can tell (without spending a million dollars) is to maximize the reactivity of ammonia - and you do this by keeping it oxygen rich. I wasn’t suggesting that anyone would do this while cleaning their gun – it’s a way to do a worst case test against ammonia in a few days – maybe 30 barrel lifetimes of cleaning in a few days. Suppose I do the worst case test and find no Fe or Ni atoms. That would prove conclusively that ammonia is safe for barrels (as long as you clean it out and apply oil). If the lab finds a few million Fe atoms then we would have to correlate this to real world cleaning and try to figure out the impact on barrel integrity. [ QUOTE ] <font color="purple"> [b] While I'm facinated by your theory that a hot ice tray will freeze faster than a cold one, I can't for the life of me understand how that helps anyone get their gun shooting better. [/b] </font> [/ QUOTE ] It served two purposes. It showed that it’s possible for fluid to undergo (simultaneously) phase transitions on both energy spectrum's (evaporate and freeze). You implied it was not possible for Ammonia to be hygroscopic while it is evaporating. In fact it does both, but evaporation at STP is the dominant factor. It also shows that many things in science are counter-intuitive so we can’t work from assumptions, intuition and obvious guesses. BTW, the ice cube question comes from Halliday, Resnick & Merrill (the most popular university physics text in the world). I worked for Dr. Merrill as a undergrad. [ QUOTE ] <font color="purple"> [b]theories going to help anybody shoot a smaller group or wack a deer? [/b] </font> [/ QUOTE ]They won’t – in fact they could make you shoot larger groups or miss wacking the deer if my research showed ammoniacal cleaning accelerated barrel wear by 3% - so folks over-reacted and skipped cleaning. My best guess is that the effects of Ammonia on gun barrels is minimal, and right now it’s worth taking the risk. I’m only interested in finding the truth. You are a good sport and I’m sure far more knowledgeable about guns, BR & LR shooting than me. My friends tell me I should have been a trial lawyer. I’m 7/8 in traffic court &#61514; I’m worked as a professional mathematician for Boeing where I published research – now I write software and publish computer science. And yes I need to spend more time shooting and less time on the internet. And for hopefully the last time, I’m not saying Montana Xtreme causes damage, I’m just saying as the chemists have said [ QUOTE ] <font color="purple"> [b] “no one has proven it’s safe or shown it is damaging”. [/b] </font> [/ QUOTE ] [/QUOTE]
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