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Bore solvents - Interesting thread
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<blockquote data-quote="ricka0" data-source="post: 81571" data-attributes="member: 3086"><p>[ QUOTE ]</p><p></p><p> <font color="purple"> <strong>As far as your questions about BMG 50 being bore safe, there have, of course, many and lengthy tests tests by the manufacturer as well as the experience that the many users of this product have accumulated, including Blake Daniels (four current IBS 1K records), Bill Shehane (ten time record holder and 2004 IBS 1K Champion), Rich De Simone (IBS 1K LR group record) James Phillips (IBS 600 LG score , HG group records) me (IBS 600 LG group, HG score) and Tim North, owner of Broughton Barrels among many others. I know these guys credentials but I don't even know your name. Perhaps we could help persuade you.</strong> .</font></p><p> </p><p></p><p>[/ QUOTE ]</p><p></p><p>All the experts you quote are truly expert when it comes to shooting, but that alone gives them no credentials in chemistry. This is nothing more than the authority fallacy. Their opinion on ammoniacal chemistry is no more valid than anyone else with their chemistry background.</p><p></p><p>I would like to read the tests conducted by the manufacture.</p><p>Ammonia is hygroscopic, gasoline is not. Any exposure to the atmosphere will attract water.</p><p></p><p>The point is moot however, it's not the water in ammonia that is the potential problem, it's the ammonia.</p><p></p><p>The triple bogus applies. Either you seal the barrel and stop the reaction or you don't seal it and all the ammonia quickly evaporates. How did he verify that the ammonia caused no damage? Unless he has a sealed test chamber and bubbles oxygen thru the barrel (2" will do nicely), then has atomic absorption spectroscopy on the solution and look for iron (and any other elements used in SS)) you don't have a valid test.</p><p></p><p> [ QUOTE ]</p><p> <font color="purple"> <strong>If we can't, get the July 05 issue of Field and Stream, page 34 and see what they have to say about it.</strong> </font> </p><p></p><p>[/ QUOTE ] you're joking right? What credentials does F&amp;S have? What was their test design?</p><p></p><p>I'm not saying Montana X-Treme is a bad product, or that it will harm your barrel. Hey, I'm a Montana boy myself. If it's strongly concentrated Ammonia then it will do a good job of removing copper. If it's got GM Top oil or equivalent in it, it will also remove powder. I believe you it's an excellent cleaner. I'm saying there is no valid evidence it will not harm SS. </p><p></p><p>As I said a couple lines up: Several good metallurgists claim strong Ammonia (22+ degrees Baume) will degrade your barrel. All I can get the chemists to say is [ QUOTE ]</p><p> <font color="red"> <strong>Do the tests</strong> </font> </p><p></p><p>[/ QUOTE ]</p><p></p><p>I'm a pal of Lynn - also posting a BRC. He's a firm believer in Ammonia cleaning. I'm undecided. You can always ping me offline.</p><p></p><p>There is nothing new about ammonia miscible oil.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ricka0, post: 81571, member: 3086"] [ QUOTE ] <font color="purple"> [b]As far as your questions about BMG 50 being bore safe, there have, of course, many and lengthy tests tests by the manufacturer as well as the experience that the many users of this product have accumulated, including Blake Daniels (four current IBS 1K records), Bill Shehane (ten time record holder and 2004 IBS 1K Champion), Rich De Simone (IBS 1K LR group record) James Phillips (IBS 600 LG score , HG group records) me (IBS 600 LG group, HG score) and Tim North, owner of Broughton Barrels among many others. I know these guys credentials but I don't even know your name. Perhaps we could help persuade you.[/b] .</font> [/ QUOTE ] All the experts you quote are truly expert when it comes to shooting, but that alone gives them no credentials in chemistry. This is nothing more than the authority fallacy. Their opinion on ammoniacal chemistry is no more valid than anyone else with their chemistry background. I would like to read the tests conducted by the manufacture. Ammonia is hygroscopic, gasoline is not. Any exposure to the atmosphere will attract water. The point is moot however, it's not the water in ammonia that is the potential problem, it's the ammonia. The triple bogus applies. Either you seal the barrel and stop the reaction or you don't seal it and all the ammonia quickly evaporates. How did he verify that the ammonia caused no damage? Unless he has a sealed test chamber and bubbles oxygen thru the barrel (2" will do nicely), then has atomic absorption spectroscopy on the solution and look for iron (and any other elements used in SS)) you don't have a valid test. [ QUOTE ] <font color="purple"> [b]If we can't, get the July 05 issue of Field and Stream, page 34 and see what they have to say about it.[/b] </font> [/ QUOTE ] you're joking right? What credentials does F&S have? What was their test design? I'm not saying Montana X-Treme is a bad product, or that it will harm your barrel. Hey, I'm a Montana boy myself. If it's strongly concentrated Ammonia then it will do a good job of removing copper. If it's got GM Top oil or equivalent in it, it will also remove powder. I believe you it's an excellent cleaner. I'm saying there is no valid evidence it will not harm SS. As I said a couple lines up: Several good metallurgists claim strong Ammonia (22+ degrees Baume) will degrade your barrel. All I can get the chemists to say is [ QUOTE ] <font color="red"> [b]Do the tests[/b] </font> [/ QUOTE ] I'm a pal of Lynn - also posting a BRC. He's a firm believer in Ammonia cleaning. I'm undecided. You can always ping me offline. There is nothing new about ammonia miscible oil. [/QUOTE]
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