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Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics
Berger Fail on elk
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<blockquote data-quote="MontanaRifleman" data-source="post: 897659" data-attributes="member: 11717"><p>I don't know about your experience and didn't read the thread, but sometimes deer and other critters will travel a ways before expiring after receiving even a hellish wound through the vitals.</p><p></p><p>All the deer and antelope I have shot have dropped within a few feet of where they were shot or wandered maybe 10 or 15 yds with the exception of 2. The first was a bungled head shot attempt on a deer on my part and the second was a buck antelope that I shot with a 25-06 and a 115 CT bullet which is essentially the same as a Ballistic Tip, which is a frangible type bullet. The antelope began an all out sprint when shot and started in to a large circle and piled up almost back at the spot where it was shot after sprinting approx 100 yds. When I got to the buck and turned him over he had a large exit wound of about 1 1/2" - 2" and lots of blood and some lung tissue on the ground. His lungs were shot up pretty good and when I skinned him out he had a 1" entrance wound under the hide, through the ribs. I could not have asked for better performance from a bullet. The bullet did its job but the buck took off anyway. That happens sometimes. Most of the animals I have taken that have dropped quickly were with partitions which made a smaller entrance, wound channel and exit. The 7mm 160 partition exits were usually about 1/2" - 1". The 115 CT bullet did a much better job than any of them but the antelope didn't care. It happens, and I did not complain about it.</p><p></p><p>When you make the statements you make, you are basically ignoring all the reports, many with pictures, of the successes people have had with Bergers. They are frangible bullets and as such have some limitations and are not the always best choice for shoulder shots or heavy bone. Usually, a blow up like this is the result of of using a lesser SD bullet. I have never heard of a blow up from a 300 gr 338 bullet or 215 gr and up 30 cal bullet. HINT.</p><p></p><p>When using frangible bullets it is best to use the heaviest for cal that your rifle can practically shoot. For me, that means the 230 out of my 300 RUM. Anything lighter might end up in a blow up at close range. For a 300 WSM and up I would use a 215 and for a 300 WM I would use at least a 215 and maybe a 230. The best shot placement for frangible bullets is through the ribs and into the vitals. I have read good reports of Bergers penetrating both shoulders but that's not a shot I would pick if I had the choice.</p><p></p><p>If it were possible to gather the data I would gladly wager that Berger bullets are responsible for more DRTs per shot than any other type of bullet and this is coming from a man who overall prefers a controlled expansion bullet as they give more overall flexibility in shots. That said, Bergers are a better LR bullet, they are accurate and they are cheap and at least 90% of the shots I have ever made were through the ribs and into the vitals.</p><p></p><p>Bergers are not junk on animals. When used properly, IMO, they are the best terminal performance bullets there are.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="MontanaRifleman, post: 897659, member: 11717"] I don't know about your experience and didn't read the thread, but sometimes deer and other critters will travel a ways before expiring after receiving even a hellish wound through the vitals. All the deer and antelope I have shot have dropped within a few feet of where they were shot or wandered maybe 10 or 15 yds with the exception of 2. The first was a bungled head shot attempt on a deer on my part and the second was a buck antelope that I shot with a 25-06 and a 115 CT bullet which is essentially the same as a Ballistic Tip, which is a frangible type bullet. The antelope began an all out sprint when shot and started in to a large circle and piled up almost back at the spot where it was shot after sprinting approx 100 yds. When I got to the buck and turned him over he had a large exit wound of about 1 1/2" - 2" and lots of blood and some lung tissue on the ground. His lungs were shot up pretty good and when I skinned him out he had a 1" entrance wound under the hide, through the ribs. I could not have asked for better performance from a bullet. The bullet did its job but the buck took off anyway. That happens sometimes. Most of the animals I have taken that have dropped quickly were with partitions which made a smaller entrance, wound channel and exit. The 7mm 160 partition exits were usually about 1/2" - 1". The 115 CT bullet did a much better job than any of them but the antelope didn't care. It happens, and I did not complain about it. When you make the statements you make, you are basically ignoring all the reports, many with pictures, of the successes people have had with Bergers. They are frangible bullets and as such have some limitations and are not the always best choice for shoulder shots or heavy bone. Usually, a blow up like this is the result of of using a lesser SD bullet. I have never heard of a blow up from a 300 gr 338 bullet or 215 gr and up 30 cal bullet. HINT. When using frangible bullets it is best to use the heaviest for cal that your rifle can practically shoot. For me, that means the 230 out of my 300 RUM. Anything lighter might end up in a blow up at close range. For a 300 WSM and up I would use a 215 and for a 300 WM I would use at least a 215 and maybe a 230. The best shot placement for frangible bullets is through the ribs and into the vitals. I have read good reports of Bergers penetrating both shoulders but that's not a shot I would pick if I had the choice. If it were possible to gather the data I would gladly wager that Berger bullets are responsible for more DRTs per shot than any other type of bullet and this is coming from a man who overall prefers a controlled expansion bullet as they give more overall flexibility in shots. That said, Bergers are a better LR bullet, they are accurate and they are cheap and at least 90% of the shots I have ever made were through the ribs and into the vitals. Bergers are not junk on animals. When used properly, IMO, they are the best terminal performance bullets there are. [/QUOTE]
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