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Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics
Berger Fail on elk
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<blockquote data-quote="Broz" data-source="post: 897013" data-attributes="member: 7503"><p>Mike, way to save the day with your follow up shot. Nice job. I have never used a 30 cal 180 Berger so I can not comment on it. I did use some 190's once a long time ago in the 300 wby. But switched to 210's and never took anything larger than deer with the 190. They left huge exits when placed in the ribs and what I expected from a 300 wby at these velocities. Any of us that have hunted enough have seen "failures" from many different bullet brands. Weather it was actually the bullet or was from not so good of placement for the type of bullet used. My worst two were the same season from Barnes 7mm 168 TSX in two different bulls under 300 yards. We recovered one exactly 4.7 miles on my gps from where he was shot. Right before dark and it was starting to snow. He had lost a lot of blood but was still alive. Luckly we put him down with a shot in the neck as he was bedded facing us. The first bullet left a 7mm cal sized hole in and out getting both lungs. But we all know that will not anchor a bull wanting to flee with the herd. Small holes in lungs just don't cut it. If we would have hit shoulder bone it might have been different.</p><p> </p><p>The other we didn't recover at all. lost the track in the herd tracks he left with. I can only assume the same problem but can not be sure. So who knows? But these were only two of the problems I had with "controlled expansion" bullets and the reasons I switched to fragmenting bullets. </p><p> </p><p>I have never seen what you described with so little penetration. I am not doubting you but would sure like to have seen that wound with my own eyes. With 100's of Berger kills I just have not seen it. </p><p> </p><p>In the end we all have to use what we like and have confidence in. For me it is a fragmenting bullet that will still expand if I opt to or have to take the long poke. </p><p> </p><p>But I agree, I would never have recommended that bullet for your friend if he only shoots up close. A 210, 215 or 230 for elk Yes. I 180 no unless it was in a 7mm.</p><p> </p><p>I think sometimes one should pay more attention to sectional density that Velocity when choosing a bullet. It seems to me of these two the SD is by far a bigger friend. Especially with fragmenting bullets. But probably also with "controlled expansion" bullets that don't hit bone. But that is just my opinion from what I see year after year.</p><p> </p><p>Thanks for your report. </p><p> </p><p>Jeff</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Broz, post: 897013, member: 7503"] Mike, way to save the day with your follow up shot. Nice job. I have never used a 30 cal 180 Berger so I can not comment on it. I did use some 190's once a long time ago in the 300 wby. But switched to 210's and never took anything larger than deer with the 190. They left huge exits when placed in the ribs and what I expected from a 300 wby at these velocities. Any of us that have hunted enough have seen "failures" from many different bullet brands. Weather it was actually the bullet or was from not so good of placement for the type of bullet used. My worst two were the same season from Barnes 7mm 168 TSX in two different bulls under 300 yards. We recovered one exactly 4.7 miles on my gps from where he was shot. Right before dark and it was starting to snow. He had lost a lot of blood but was still alive. Luckly we put him down with a shot in the neck as he was bedded facing us. The first bullet left a 7mm cal sized hole in and out getting both lungs. But we all know that will not anchor a bull wanting to flee with the herd. Small holes in lungs just don't cut it. If we would have hit shoulder bone it might have been different. The other we didn't recover at all. lost the track in the herd tracks he left with. I can only assume the same problem but can not be sure. So who knows? But these were only two of the problems I had with "controlled expansion" bullets and the reasons I switched to fragmenting bullets. I have never seen what you described with so little penetration. I am not doubting you but would sure like to have seen that wound with my own eyes. With 100's of Berger kills I just have not seen it. In the end we all have to use what we like and have confidence in. For me it is a fragmenting bullet that will still expand if I opt to or have to take the long poke. But I agree, I would never have recommended that bullet for your friend if he only shoots up close. A 210, 215 or 230 for elk Yes. I 180 no unless it was in a 7mm. I think sometimes one should pay more attention to sectional density that Velocity when choosing a bullet. It seems to me of these two the SD is by far a bigger friend. Especially with fragmenting bullets. But probably also with "controlled expansion" bullets that don't hit bone. But that is just my opinion from what I see year after year. Thanks for your report. Jeff [/QUOTE]
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