Forums
New posts
Search forums
What's new
Articles
Latest reviews
Author list
Classifieds
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles and first posts only
Search titles only
By:
New posts
Search forums
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Forums
Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics
Barrel hardness
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="hammertyme" data-source="post: 481686" data-attributes="member: 12863"><p>Barrel hardness does make a difference in barrel life in my experience. AT one time there was a gentleman that bought Green Mountain 2nds blanks. He cut them to length, crowned and chambered them and sold them for a very good price. I got some of his blanks and welded hinge blocks on them for Encores. When I checked the hardness of the weld to make sure it wasn't brittle I also punched the steel. C scale hardness of the barrel was 7R. The barrel and the maker did not last very long.</p><p>If you speak with a number of barrel makers I think you will find that the good ones are trying to come in at around 28R.</p><p> </p><p>SInce I have been NITRIDING my barrels and actions for about a year and testing them and the people that do the process any number of ways I think I can accurately speak here.</p><p>1. I have yet to find anything but positive except # 2</p><p>2. Not everyone Nitriding does it the same and some do a very poor job.</p><p>3. I and a barrel maker took measurements before and after Nitriding a barrel. Did you know that Savage does not heat treat their awesome shooting barrels?</p><p>4. Benchmark barrels laps their barrels several times including after Nitriding they do a clean up and pin lap to make sure the barrel is exact when they send it or install it on your action.</p><p>5. If your actions are steel you can Nitride the action as long as the person doing it knows to keep temps under 1500 degrees and in that temp for an hour or less. We have punched several Savage actions. The average loss of harness across the board is 1-2 rockwell. Some 42's actions were found at 41 or 40 R on the C scale. The rear bridge was typicall 38-40 if I recall correctly. It/they also dropped an average of 1-2 points.</p><p>Understand also that different people think different things but the general idea is the depth of the Ferratic hardness is 2-3 thou. Some will say more makes it brittle. Not sure where that one came from since a typical action is a whole lot of uneffected strong steel under that .002 or .003 surface hardness. The Ferratic Nitride process that has been used on mine and friends stuff is under 1200 degrees and for less than an hour. Basically what your smith does for stress relieving except Niride is in a salt bath and not an oven.</p><p>6. I have 9 Nitrided barrels. Some I broke in first. Some I Nitrided first. I have 9 bugholing barrels and I am getting ready to send two more barrels to Benchmark. One stainless and one Chrome Moly to be Nitrided. I am so sold on this process for my Alaska hunting needs. 500 hours of salt spray testing without any sign of corrosion is good enough for me. It looks like a $400. ble job and to date it has destroyed all competition the military has stacked it up against for wear longitivity.</p><p> </p><p>Note: Nitride is first put in a 950-1200 degree bath for roughly and hour. Then it is dipped in an oil bath at 750. The first time the barrel looks like a gray color or white/gray. The second dip at 750 gives it that blue black or carbon black finish. Different dippers have their own ideas how to do this process. Basically it is the same concept.</p><p> </p><p>Hardness comparison: I have an e-mail from someone which was sent to a smith on here. The man referred to wanting a brake because he bought three el-cheapo's from someone. Two of the brakes galled so bad they had to be cut off the barrels and re-crowned. He wanted a different brake before the same thing happened to barrel number three. I know the person selling the brakes quite well. I turned him onto a long time machinist friend and I know that the material used for some of those brakes were made out of a steel/lead material. Those in the brake business Like Daryl Holland Jim See and others have their brakes heat treated.</p><p> </p><p>Hardness matters from my perspective.</p><p> </p><p>Some of us built 6.5 WSM's after learning about Nitride. I have a friend of a friend that now has 900 rounds through his barrel and it looks just like the day it was installed. THey are borescoping there hotrods quite often and documenting just how much difference NITRIDE makes on barrel life.</p><p>7. My 19" handgun barrels range from 95-135fps more velocity than without Nitride and there are NO exceptions. Same load as before Nitriding.</p><p>8. I have quite a number of skinny little hunting barrels. I have shot only three shot groups through many of these barrels for 40 years. AT 5 shots with the big powder capacity cases of today the barrel is mighty hot. SHooting 5 shots through a Nitride barrel and the barrel is warm. AT 7 rounds we are really warm.</p><p> </p><p>Lastly: My pride and excitement currently is a Savage takee off never fired 300 RUM barrel. Cut to 19" and was Nitrided and I received the barrel and brake in dirty right from the tank condition. It currently shoots into one hole with two bullets and with that same load of H1000 the 165gr Accubond and the 168gr Barnes TSX have shot .2 and better six times at 100 yards. Velocity- well past 3200fps. 95 grains of H1000- Not responsible for your loading practices. Start low and work up. I have added two grains more powder a couple of times after Nitriding and we can sure smokem!</p><p> </p><p>I am so happy someone took the step from the tooling industry and turned me onto NITRIDING!</p><p> </p><p>Neal</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="hammertyme, post: 481686, member: 12863"] Barrel hardness does make a difference in barrel life in my experience. AT one time there was a gentleman that bought Green Mountain 2nds blanks. He cut them to length, crowned and chambered them and sold them for a very good price. I got some of his blanks and welded hinge blocks on them for Encores. When I checked the hardness of the weld to make sure it wasn't brittle I also punched the steel. C scale hardness of the barrel was 7R. The barrel and the maker did not last very long. If you speak with a number of barrel makers I think you will find that the good ones are trying to come in at around 28R. SInce I have been NITRIDING my barrels and actions for about a year and testing them and the people that do the process any number of ways I think I can accurately speak here. 1. I have yet to find anything but positive except # 2 2. Not everyone Nitriding does it the same and some do a very poor job. 3. I and a barrel maker took measurements before and after Nitriding a barrel. Did you know that Savage does not heat treat their awesome shooting barrels? 4. Benchmark barrels laps their barrels several times including after Nitriding they do a clean up and pin lap to make sure the barrel is exact when they send it or install it on your action. 5. If your actions are steel you can Nitride the action as long as the person doing it knows to keep temps under 1500 degrees and in that temp for an hour or less. We have punched several Savage actions. The average loss of harness across the board is 1-2 rockwell. Some 42's actions were found at 41 or 40 R on the C scale. The rear bridge was typicall 38-40 if I recall correctly. It/they also dropped an average of 1-2 points. Understand also that different people think different things but the general idea is the depth of the Ferratic hardness is 2-3 thou. Some will say more makes it brittle. Not sure where that one came from since a typical action is a whole lot of uneffected strong steel under that .002 or .003 surface hardness. The Ferratic Nitride process that has been used on mine and friends stuff is under 1200 degrees and for less than an hour. Basically what your smith does for stress relieving except Niride is in a salt bath and not an oven. 6. I have 9 Nitrided barrels. Some I broke in first. Some I Nitrided first. I have 9 bugholing barrels and I am getting ready to send two more barrels to Benchmark. One stainless and one Chrome Moly to be Nitrided. I am so sold on this process for my Alaska hunting needs. 500 hours of salt spray testing without any sign of corrosion is good enough for me. It looks like a $400. ble job and to date it has destroyed all competition the military has stacked it up against for wear longitivity. Note: Nitride is first put in a 950-1200 degree bath for roughly and hour. Then it is dipped in an oil bath at 750. The first time the barrel looks like a gray color or white/gray. The second dip at 750 gives it that blue black or carbon black finish. Different dippers have their own ideas how to do this process. Basically it is the same concept. Hardness comparison: I have an e-mail from someone which was sent to a smith on here. The man referred to wanting a brake because he bought three el-cheapo's from someone. Two of the brakes galled so bad they had to be cut off the barrels and re-crowned. He wanted a different brake before the same thing happened to barrel number three. I know the person selling the brakes quite well. I turned him onto a long time machinist friend and I know that the material used for some of those brakes were made out of a steel/lead material. Those in the brake business Like Daryl Holland Jim See and others have their brakes heat treated. Hardness matters from my perspective. Some of us built 6.5 WSM's after learning about Nitride. I have a friend of a friend that now has 900 rounds through his barrel and it looks just like the day it was installed. THey are borescoping there hotrods quite often and documenting just how much difference NITRIDE makes on barrel life. 7. My 19" handgun barrels range from 95-135fps more velocity than without Nitride and there are NO exceptions. Same load as before Nitriding. 8. I have quite a number of skinny little hunting barrels. I have shot only three shot groups through many of these barrels for 40 years. AT 5 shots with the big powder capacity cases of today the barrel is mighty hot. SHooting 5 shots through a Nitride barrel and the barrel is warm. AT 7 rounds we are really warm. Lastly: My pride and excitement currently is a Savage takee off never fired 300 RUM barrel. Cut to 19" and was Nitrided and I received the barrel and brake in dirty right from the tank condition. It currently shoots into one hole with two bullets and with that same load of H1000 the 165gr Accubond and the 168gr Barnes TSX have shot .2 and better six times at 100 yards. Velocity- well past 3200fps. 95 grains of H1000- Not responsible for your loading practices. Start low and work up. I have added two grains more powder a couple of times after Nitriding and we can sure smokem! I am so happy someone took the step from the tooling industry and turned me onto NITRIDING! Neal [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Forums
Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics
Barrel hardness
Top