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Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics
Barnes Response to Berger
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<blockquote data-quote="MontanaRifleman" data-source="post: 313167" data-attributes="member: 11717"><p>Bryan,</p><p> </p><p>Some other things to consider. In the case of a VLD like bullet that does not exit - all that energy/momentum is being absorbed (like a shock absorber) by the animals flesh as it is fragmenting and penetrating. An even greater force is generated against the rifle/shooter when the bullet is sent down the bore (oppostie and equal reaction) of the 8 lb rifle held by the 180 lb man. If laying prone or sitting at a bench we "feel" it a lot more than standing up because our upper body by rocking back on our legs has more distance to absorb it while standing.</p><p> </p><p>Another thing to consider is that the force of the bullet is parallel to the ground. To lift the deer up off it's feet requires and upward vector of force that must work against the force of gravity at a rate of 32'/sec/sec times 150 lbs. In short, it is physically impossible to knock a deer *up* off its feet with even a 88mm projectile fired from a cannon point blank. And, as soon as an animals looses its footing either from being knocked sideways or lose of power to stand, it will immediately and I mean immediately fall down. Been there done that a few times on ice, and wet slippery surfaces and it is just amazing how quick you go down and how hard you hit. The animal may be blown sideways and downward due to gravity for a distance, but there will be no upward movement of the body from the projectile. That would defy some of Newton's other observations and conclusions.</p><p> </p><p>So my challange to those who think an animal can be lifted up off its feet by a bullet is to find a dead deer or some other dead inanamate object and shoot it with a 300 SMK out of a 338 Imp @ 3000 fps and see what happens. You could shoot a hundred dead deer and will not get one to do a back flip. It might rock back over collapsing rear legs, but that's it.</p><p> </p><p>I shot a LARGE bull elk once, at 15 yds with a 160 NP out of a 7mm RM going about 3000 fps. It's body shook violently and it went straight up and did a 180 in mid air, took one bound and plied up.</p><p> </p><p>Sorry guys, but you will never knock an animal up off its feet unless you are laying under it when you shoot it. You might knock it a little sideways and down, but that's it unless the deers nervous reaction gives it more movement.</p><p> </p><p>-MR</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="MontanaRifleman, post: 313167, member: 11717"] Bryan, Some other things to consider. In the case of a VLD like bullet that does not exit - all that energy/momentum is being absorbed (like a shock absorber) by the animals flesh as it is fragmenting and penetrating. An even greater force is generated against the rifle/shooter when the bullet is sent down the bore (oppostie and equal reaction) of the 8 lb rifle held by the 180 lb man. If laying prone or sitting at a bench we "feel" it a lot more than standing up because our upper body by rocking back on our legs has more distance to absorb it while standing. Another thing to consider is that the force of the bullet is parallel to the ground. To lift the deer up off it's feet requires and upward vector of force that must work against the force of gravity at a rate of 32'/sec/sec times 150 lbs. In short, it is physically impossible to knock a deer *up* off its feet with even a 88mm projectile fired from a cannon point blank. And, as soon as an animals looses its footing either from being knocked sideways or lose of power to stand, it will immediately and I mean immediately fall down. Been there done that a few times on ice, and wet slippery surfaces and it is just amazing how quick you go down and how hard you hit. The animal may be blown sideways and downward due to gravity for a distance, but there will be no upward movement of the body from the projectile. That would defy some of Newton's other observations and conclusions. So my challange to those who think an animal can be lifted up off its feet by a bullet is to find a dead deer or some other dead inanamate object and shoot it with a 300 SMK out of a 338 Imp @ 3000 fps and see what happens. You could shoot a hundred dead deer and will not get one to do a back flip. It might rock back over collapsing rear legs, but that's it. I shot a LARGE bull elk once, at 15 yds with a 160 NP out of a 7mm RM going about 3000 fps. It's body shook violently and it went straight up and did a 180 in mid air, took one bound and plied up. Sorry guys, but you will never knock an animal up off its feet unless you are laying under it when you shoot it. You might knock it a little sideways and down, but that's it unless the deers nervous reaction gives it more movement. -MR [/QUOTE]
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