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Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics
Barnes Response to Berger
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<blockquote data-quote="BryanLitz" data-source="post: 313101" data-attributes="member: 7848"><p>Not to take sides, but here are some numbers that may shed some light.</p><p></p><p>The law of conservation of momentum is derived from Newtons third law: for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.</p><p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Momentum#conservation_of_linear_momentum" target="_blank">Momentum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</a></p><p></p><p>In words, conservation of momentum says that the product of mass and velocity is constant when something hits something else. So if a 200 grain bullet moving at 3000 fps hits a 150 lb deer, assuming all the bullets momentum is absorbed by the deer (bullet doesn't pass thru), the deer will reach a top speed of 0.51 fps when the bullet stops.</p><p></p><p>The above example assumes the bullet strikes the deer in it's center of mass, and the resulting motion is purely linear. However, there is a good case to be made for strikes that hit somewhere other than the center of gravity. In this case, the deer will get less linear velocity, and will have some rotational velocity caused by the 'torque' of the impact. The farther the strike is from the center of gravity, the more torque will be generated. It wouldn't be too difficult to calculate the torque generated by a spine hit or a front/rear hit, but the resulting rotational velocity would be very difficult to calculate because you would need to know the deer's moments of inertia.</p><p></p><p>A question for those who believe that deer sized animals can be picked up and/or knocked down by the impact of a bullet: How can you tell from your observations that the deers reaction <em>is not</em> a nervous system reaction? The dramatic shock (overpressure) caused by a high speed bullet impact must have some effect on a nervous system*. The link between the nerves an muscles is pretty quick. If a bullet hits a deer and it's legs stiffen (making it 'jump') or contract (making it fall straight down), this can create a very convincing illusion that the momentum of the bullet is what did it. The numbers suggest that the bullet doesn't have enough momentum to cause the observed reaction, so I'm wondering what else you may have seen that makes you believe that it does.</p><p></p><p>I'm just trying to get the full picture.</p><p></p><p>-Bryan</p><p></p><p>*The way in which Berger VLD's perform on impact (rapid expansion) generates greater pressure spikes within animals than bullets that don't expand as much. I think this fact is responsible for the common observation that animals shot with VLD's tend to drop immediately, or not go far. The animal may not be dead on the spot, but may be incapacitated by the shock to the nervous system, and then quickly die from the organ damage inflicted by the shot.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="BryanLitz, post: 313101, member: 7848"] Not to take sides, but here are some numbers that may shed some light. The law of conservation of momentum is derived from Newtons third law: for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Momentum#conservation_of_linear_momentum]Momentum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url] In words, conservation of momentum says that the product of mass and velocity is constant when something hits something else. So if a 200 grain bullet moving at 3000 fps hits a 150 lb deer, assuming all the bullets momentum is absorbed by the deer (bullet doesn't pass thru), the deer will reach a top speed of 0.51 fps when the bullet stops. The above example assumes the bullet strikes the deer in it's center of mass, and the resulting motion is purely linear. However, there is a good case to be made for strikes that hit somewhere other than the center of gravity. In this case, the deer will get less linear velocity, and will have some rotational velocity caused by the 'torque' of the impact. The farther the strike is from the center of gravity, the more torque will be generated. It wouldn't be too difficult to calculate the torque generated by a spine hit or a front/rear hit, but the resulting rotational velocity would be very difficult to calculate because you would need to know the deer's moments of inertia. A question for those who believe that deer sized animals can be picked up and/or knocked down by the impact of a bullet: How can you tell from your observations that the deers reaction [i]is not[/i] a nervous system reaction? The dramatic shock (overpressure) caused by a high speed bullet impact must have some effect on a nervous system*. The link between the nerves an muscles is pretty quick. If a bullet hits a deer and it's legs stiffen (making it 'jump') or contract (making it fall straight down), this can create a very convincing illusion that the momentum of the bullet is what did it. The numbers suggest that the bullet doesn't have enough momentum to cause the observed reaction, so I'm wondering what else you may have seen that makes you believe that it does. I'm just trying to get the full picture. -Bryan *The way in which Berger VLD's perform on impact (rapid expansion) generates greater pressure spikes within animals than bullets that don't expand as much. I think this fact is responsible for the common observation that animals shot with VLD's tend to drop immediately, or not go far. The animal may not be dead on the spot, but may be incapacitated by the shock to the nervous system, and then quickly die from the organ damage inflicted by the shot. [/QUOTE]
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