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Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics
Ballistics beyond 2000 yds : do we need/trust them?
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<blockquote data-quote="CatShooter" data-source="post: 138565" data-attributes="member: 7"><p>Gustavo...</p><p></p><p>I agree with what Buffalobob and Fiftydriver said.</p><p></p><p>First, there is no "ONE" military framework that a mil-sniper shoots in.</p><p></p><p>Under some conditions, if a military sniper cannot make a first shot hit a 500yds, he will not take the shot... the target at that range might be availably only through a small window or port.</p><p></p><p>But under other conditions, snipers can harass enemies at very long range without being at risk - consider that snipers can keep the enemy from drinking water, from using the facilities, getting to the chow tent, just by raining accurate fire on the camp from 2000+yds, even if the hit ratio is &lt;20%.</p><p></p><p>Being stuck in a fox hole for three or four days is VERY demoralizing. </p><p></p><p>In WW2, the Germans kept our guys dug in for days at a time, and it cost us dearly. We had NO snipers to shoot back, and iron sighted Garands were no match for the German K98 sniper rifles.</p><p></p><p>I think your marine friend didn't have much practical experience. Probably a yuppy who didn't get into college /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif</p><p></p><p>As to the civilian side of things... there is a fellow that was written up in Precision Shooting a few years back that shot a 308 (Ackley) at 3000 yds, and rang steel plates on a regular basis. He used a custom built scope mount with 7 degrees of tilt. He had NO problem with transonic velocities (transonic problems disappear with proper twist rates). He shot a prairie dog at that range - third shot.</p><p></p><p>There are folks that whack away at rock chucks at 2,500yds on a regular basis and hit well enough to eliminate "luck". </p><p></p><p>I shoot a a 50BMG with 145 moa of up available on the scope, so I think a program that works past 2000yds is just fine.</p><p></p><p>So I will vote FOR longer range ballistic software.</p><p></p><p>The biggest problem with the current "models" (G1 through G8) is that they are ALL based on artillery projectiles that are 2" to 4" in diameter... and then the data is "scaled down" for us. No one is interested in breaking ground and doing original ballistic work and developing models with a series of projectiles from .17" to .40" at the velocities that we use them. </p><p></p><p>So when you punch in the BC for the .224 69gr MatchKing, you are hoping that it will fly "sorta, kinda" like a 4" diameter G7 round... sorta kinda /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif</p><p></p><p>If you can get accurate predictions of flight to 3000 yds, then go to it. People WILL buy it.</p><p></p><p>It's absolutely amazing!! The better your rifle, the better your ammo, the better your flight predictions, and better your ranging capabilities, and the more you practice, the more "luckier" you get /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif</p><p></p><p>.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="CatShooter, post: 138565, member: 7"] Gustavo... I agree with what Buffalobob and Fiftydriver said. First, there is no "ONE" military framework that a mil-sniper shoots in. Under some conditions, if a military sniper cannot make a first shot hit a 500yds, he will not take the shot... the target at that range might be availably only through a small window or port. But under other conditions, snipers can harass enemies at very long range without being at risk - consider that snipers can keep the enemy from drinking water, from using the facilities, getting to the chow tent, just by raining accurate fire on the camp from 2000+yds, even if the hit ratio is <20%. Being stuck in a fox hole for three or four days is VERY demoralizing. In WW2, the Germans kept our guys dug in for days at a time, and it cost us dearly. We had NO snipers to shoot back, and iron sighted Garands were no match for the German K98 sniper rifles. I think your marine friend didn't have much practical experience. Probably a yuppy who didn't get into college [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] As to the civilian side of things... there is a fellow that was written up in Precision Shooting a few years back that shot a 308 (Ackley) at 3000 yds, and rang steel plates on a regular basis. He used a custom built scope mount with 7 degrees of tilt. He had NO problem with transonic velocities (transonic problems disappear with proper twist rates). He shot a prairie dog at that range - third shot. There are folks that whack away at rock chucks at 2,500yds on a regular basis and hit well enough to eliminate "luck". I shoot a a 50BMG with 145 moa of up available on the scope, so I think a program that works past 2000yds is just fine. So I will vote FOR longer range ballistic software. The biggest problem with the current "models" (G1 through G8) is that they are ALL based on artillery projectiles that are 2" to 4" in diameter... and then the data is "scaled down" for us. No one is interested in breaking ground and doing original ballistic work and developing models with a series of projectiles from .17" to .40" at the velocities that we use them. So when you punch in the BC for the .224 69gr MatchKing, you are hoping that it will fly "sorta, kinda" like a 4" diameter G7 round... sorta kinda [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] If you can get accurate predictions of flight to 3000 yds, then go to it. People WILL buy it. It's absolutely amazing!! The better your rifle, the better your ammo, the better your flight predictions, and better your ranging capabilities, and the more you practice, the more "luckier" you get [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] . [/QUOTE]
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Ballistics beyond 2000 yds : do we need/trust them?
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