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Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics
Are barnes reliable?
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<blockquote data-quote="bigngreen" data-source="post: 499285" data-attributes="member: 13632"><p>Deflection is likely what you experience! The first cow elk I had it happen on was shot at 450ish yrds with a 168 gr TSX from a 300WBY, she was very slightly quartering, not enough to change my hold even. I got a few inches lower into the heavy bone about a third of the way up from the bottom of her chest, massively heavy bone!! She went down DTR, her legs came up to her chest and she bounce of the dirt so I watched for a couple minutes and we ran down the feed lot and took a couple more cows. The we go out to start gathering them up and she picks her head up, take and cut her throat and then go to figuring out what happened and I found the bullet blew the bone to bits turned almost 90 degrees and came out her chest, she was feeding when I pulled the trigger with her head down and the bullet then entered her neck and bounced back out of her vertebra not breaking it but it cut her jugular, if it would not have cut her jugular it would have been a bad deal. In the mountains it would have turned into a sad story.</p><p>Second cow was similar but a little closer and running, slight quartering to me and it landed in the same spot and should have blown bone and bullet through her heart and lungs, bullet did not do so and I could not figure out where this one went but it was not into the chest cavity.</p><p>I also wittness a bull take two right in the boiler room at under 200yrds with a 165 TSX and when we opened him up they only made it to the first lung, completely blowing up, his off lung and heart were only bruised but the bullet dumping that much energy broke his intestines open and blood shot in places I've never seen before on an elk, I couldn't believe he was shooting Barnes so I cut one and it was all copper and was for sure a Barnes.</p><p></p><p>That is three fails out of a ton of animals with great performance, I think they are a great bullet but they are not any better than some of the others I've shot for sure. I think the 225 TTSX is going to be a good enough bullet I'm building a rifle just for them and intent to try to get the 265 TTSX to shoot in a RUM.</p><p>My theory is that the Barnes is to hard at times, it blows the nose of the bullet of then all you have is a hard blunt shank with no give and you then get deflection, the lead core bullets in the same situation continue to mushroom, removing bone from it's path and then continuing on that path more reliably. If you shoot a Barnes at a gong and what do you hear, you hear it spinning out into space which is deflection. Shoot a Berger at the same gong and you will find little copper disks at the base of the target which means that bullet mushroomed all the way to the base trying to stay on coarse. Driving a lighter Barnes faster is going to increase deflection IMO, if I use them I'm starting to load the heaviest I can with moderate velocity so they don't blow the tip of but mushroom and drive through the vitals of an elk or I load them as light and fast as I can and us them for varmints. </p><p>I am not saying that the Berger is better than the Barnes just to make that clear, I've had about the same success with both!!!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="bigngreen, post: 499285, member: 13632"] Deflection is likely what you experience! The first cow elk I had it happen on was shot at 450ish yrds with a 168 gr TSX from a 300WBY, she was very slightly quartering, not enough to change my hold even. I got a few inches lower into the heavy bone about a third of the way up from the bottom of her chest, massively heavy bone!! She went down DTR, her legs came up to her chest and she bounce of the dirt so I watched for a couple minutes and we ran down the feed lot and took a couple more cows. The we go out to start gathering them up and she picks her head up, take and cut her throat and then go to figuring out what happened and I found the bullet blew the bone to bits turned almost 90 degrees and came out her chest, she was feeding when I pulled the trigger with her head down and the bullet then entered her neck and bounced back out of her vertebra not breaking it but it cut her jugular, if it would not have cut her jugular it would have been a bad deal. In the mountains it would have turned into a sad story. Second cow was similar but a little closer and running, slight quartering to me and it landed in the same spot and should have blown bone and bullet through her heart and lungs, bullet did not do so and I could not figure out where this one went but it was not into the chest cavity. I also wittness a bull take two right in the boiler room at under 200yrds with a 165 TSX and when we opened him up they only made it to the first lung, completely blowing up, his off lung and heart were only bruised but the bullet dumping that much energy broke his intestines open and blood shot in places I've never seen before on an elk, I couldn't believe he was shooting Barnes so I cut one and it was all copper and was for sure a Barnes. That is three fails out of a ton of animals with great performance, I think they are a great bullet but they are not any better than some of the others I've shot for sure. I think the 225 TTSX is going to be a good enough bullet I'm building a rifle just for them and intent to try to get the 265 TTSX to shoot in a RUM. My theory is that the Barnes is to hard at times, it blows the nose of the bullet of then all you have is a hard blunt shank with no give and you then get deflection, the lead core bullets in the same situation continue to mushroom, removing bone from it's path and then continuing on that path more reliably. If you shoot a Barnes at a gong and what do you hear, you hear it spinning out into space which is deflection. Shoot a Berger at the same gong and you will find little copper disks at the base of the target which means that bullet mushroomed all the way to the base trying to stay on coarse. Driving a lighter Barnes faster is going to increase deflection IMO, if I use them I'm starting to load the heaviest I can with moderate velocity so they don't blow the tip of but mushroom and drive through the vitals of an elk or I load them as light and fast as I can and us them for varmints. I am not saying that the Berger is better than the Barnes just to make that clear, I've had about the same success with both!!! [/QUOTE]
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