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Long Range Hunting & Shooting
8.59 Titan Lazzeroni
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<blockquote data-quote="4xforfun" data-source="post: 576338" data-attributes="member: 9172"><p>I have been reading some of the posts on this thread and a couple of things hit me.</p><p> </p><p>First, I am trying to grasp the concept of a self made buisness man...a highly sucessfull one at that, who has his own line of guns...very impressive guns at that...asking one of us to "run some numbers" for him. I can't imagin that a person selling "long range" guns doesn't have six different balistic programs, or at least someone "in house" do do it for him. And, if he is a L R "freak" like some of us, he would have already spend countless hours pouring over balistic data...comparing the light and fast against the heavy and slow...seeing what x bullet will do when pushed to xxxx FPS with xyz chambering. Comparing the balistics of simmiler bullets from different mfgrs!!</p><p> </p><p>Also, on his post about 1000 yard matches in AZ and dialing down and back up between matches....I tell you what ...I NEVER mess with my ELEVATION dials between matches...even on different days.(I usualy re zero for wind though) And, I can't remember a time yet that my morning zero was anywhere near my afternoon zero, and visa versa...or even from the match to the shootoff.....I ALWAYS NEED TO DIAL IN OR OUT ELEVATION...SOMETIMES A FAIRLY LARGE AMOUNT. It has nothing to do with the scope.....it has EVERYTHING to do with the different environmental paramaters....and no amout of speed will change that....</p><p> </p><p>Yes, up to 500 yards or so the fast and light do help in ranging errors....but past that, no matter what you shoot, you need a range finder and you need to either dial up or use the retical to compensate. No more help from the speed department. And it doesn't matter to the gun, the bullet or the deer/moose/elk..weather or not you dialed 6 moa or 7 moa of elevation, or even 8 moa...or held to the third dot or the forth dot....it makes NO difference!!. The fact that gun/bullet XYZ is 1.5 moa flatter than gun/bullet ABC at 1000 yards is compleatly irrelevant!! All that matters is that you "make the connection", so to speak.</p><p> </p><p>Now, Mr Lazzeroni.....I tip my hat to anyone who has accomplished what you have.....ESPCIALY in the gun bizz in these politacly correct times!!!!!! It looks like the guys might be pointing you in the right direction...you may be seeing the light....but I implore you. Go buy a bunch of tru LR bullets and get to shooting....at the very least you will have first hand info for which to compare. You won't have to take the word of a bunch of us computer geaks You will have gotten to go out and shoot, which to me, makes it all worth while...unless you shoot to much already....kinda like the anallagy of the Playboy photographer who was sick of looking at beautifull women!!! Or being rich makes you sick of money. YAH...RIGHT!!<img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big Grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" /></p><p> </p><p>If you were to ask me about which long range bullet to choose.....test them all....Hornady, Berger, JLK all come to mind.... I love the Berger VLD, but for your purposes, maybe the new tactical bullets might be better. The heavier the better....190 is not "heavy" I haven't shot them yet, but from what I have heard the tactical bullets are less sensitive to seating depth issues. I think you should do long range testing, but also POUND them in there at close range....just like what can happen in the field...the dreadded close shot. They aren't bonded, but I think that the long heavy bullets will stay together enough to do MAJOR damage. 230 grain 30 cals and 300 grain 338 cal. are large chunks of lead.<img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big Grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" /></p><p> </p><p> </p><p>These guys, me included, preach about heavy and slow....with your lineup of monsters....you can preach "HEAVY AND F A S T !!!!</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>GIDDYUP!!!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="4xforfun, post: 576338, member: 9172"] I have been reading some of the posts on this thread and a couple of things hit me. First, I am trying to grasp the concept of a self made buisness man...a highly sucessfull one at that, who has his own line of guns...very impressive guns at that...asking one of us to "run some numbers" for him. I can't imagin that a person selling "long range" guns doesn't have six different balistic programs, or at least someone "in house" do do it for him. And, if he is a L R "freak" like some of us, he would have already spend countless hours pouring over balistic data...comparing the light and fast against the heavy and slow...seeing what x bullet will do when pushed to xxxx FPS with xyz chambering. Comparing the balistics of simmiler bullets from different mfgrs!! Also, on his post about 1000 yard matches in AZ and dialing down and back up between matches....I tell you what ...I NEVER mess with my ELEVATION dials between matches...even on different days.(I usualy re zero for wind though) And, I can't remember a time yet that my morning zero was anywhere near my afternoon zero, and visa versa...or even from the match to the shootoff.....I ALWAYS NEED TO DIAL IN OR OUT ELEVATION...SOMETIMES A FAIRLY LARGE AMOUNT. It has nothing to do with the scope.....it has EVERYTHING to do with the different environmental paramaters....and no amout of speed will change that.... Yes, up to 500 yards or so the fast and light do help in ranging errors....but past that, no matter what you shoot, you need a range finder and you need to either dial up or use the retical to compensate. No more help from the speed department. And it doesn't matter to the gun, the bullet or the deer/moose/elk..weather or not you dialed 6 moa or 7 moa of elevation, or even 8 moa...or held to the third dot or the forth dot....it makes NO difference!!. The fact that gun/bullet XYZ is 1.5 moa flatter than gun/bullet ABC at 1000 yards is compleatly irrelevant!! All that matters is that you "make the connection", so to speak. Now, Mr Lazzeroni.....I tip my hat to anyone who has accomplished what you have.....ESPCIALY in the gun bizz in these politacly correct times!!!!!! It looks like the guys might be pointing you in the right direction...you may be seeing the light....but I implore you. Go buy a bunch of tru LR bullets and get to shooting....at the very least you will have first hand info for which to compare. You won't have to take the word of a bunch of us computer geaks You will have gotten to go out and shoot, which to me, makes it all worth while...unless you shoot to much already....kinda like the anallagy of the Playboy photographer who was sick of looking at beautifull women!!! Or being rich makes you sick of money. YAH...RIGHT!!:D If you were to ask me about which long range bullet to choose.....test them all....Hornady, Berger, JLK all come to mind.... I love the Berger VLD, but for your purposes, maybe the new tactical bullets might be better. The heavier the better....190 is not "heavy" I haven't shot them yet, but from what I have heard the tactical bullets are less sensitive to seating depth issues. I think you should do long range testing, but also POUND them in there at close range....just like what can happen in the field...the dreadded close shot. They aren't bonded, but I think that the long heavy bullets will stay together enough to do MAJOR damage. 230 grain 30 cals and 300 grain 338 cal. are large chunks of lead.:D These guys, me included, preach about heavy and slow....with your lineup of monsters....you can preach "HEAVY AND F A S T !!!! GIDDYUP!!! [/QUOTE]
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8.59 Titan Lazzeroni
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