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Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics
7mm mag and bergers for canadian game
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<blockquote data-quote="Shooter264" data-source="post: 484442" data-attributes="member: 23746"><p>I don't mean to beat a dead horse but I asked for someone to bring some facts to the table yesterday. I have not seen anything yet from anyone else, just opinions, no hard numbers and no test cases. This is including what I brought to the table which was merely my opinion yesterday. I went back a looked at a few things and this is what I came up with. </p><p> </p><p>First to answer the question about Berger not Knowing their VLD bullets were good as Hunting Bullets, read this post by Eric Stecker. I doubt he is being dishonest just because he is hoping to get a Military contract.</p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">EricStecker</span></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">August 15, 2006, 12:09 PM</span></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Snuffy,</span></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">I really appreciate your being a part of the testing of Berger Bullets for the NAHC. I read your post and wanted to clarify a few details.</span></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Walt sold the company for the purpose of combining Berger's knowledge of how to make bullets with a large, high tech manufacturer (who was making the J4 bullet jacket) so that we could develop machines that would produce more bullets. The number one complaint we have received throughout the years is lack of availability. </span></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">For several years we worked on our own "hunting" bullet. We tried everything from bonding to core locking. We even put smaller bullets inside the jackets of larger bullets. The one thing that we could not achieve that we also insisted on was accuracy. We eventually gave up on the idea of producing a "hunting" bullet. </span></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">During the 2004 SHOT Show we were approached by The Best of the West which is a hunting TV show on cable. They asked us if we would like to sponsor their TV show. We told them that we do not make a hunting bullets and they replied "oh yes you do." They produced a small DVD player and played a video showing many animals being taken at </span></span><span style="color: red"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">short</span></span><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"> and </span></span><span style="color: red"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">long range</span></span><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">. They had been using our Berger VLD bullets for years with great success.</span></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">One of the first things Walt (who is still very involved with the company and my grandfather-in-law) noticed is that most of the animals (from antelope to elk) were dropping when they were hit. A few others would run fifty feet or less then drop.</span></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">What we have learned is that the VLD bullet using its sharp nose penetrates through the initial 2" to 3" of tissue (including bone). After it penetratres into the animal it expands shedding 80% to 90% of its weight. These pieces of shrapnel create a devastating wound channel deep inside the animal's vital area. The result is an animal that drops and/or bleeds out very quickly.</span></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Bullets that maintain their weight create wound channels that are the result of blunt trauma which is like hitting the inside of the animal with a hammer. Our bullets act more like a grenade creating a massive amount of tissue damage and hemraging deep inside the animal.</span></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">They are in fact our same match grade bullets used by competition target shooters around the world. The difference between our match grade bullets and others is the VLD nose profile which results in deep initial penetration. Also, since the J4 jacket is tapered at the mouth you still get expansion on long shots (elk have been taken with our bullets at 900+ yards).</span></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">I hope you try our bullets and expect that you will find out like many other hunters that Berger VLDs give you the result you want, great shot placement due to accuracy and an animal that falls quickly due to terminal performance.</span></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Regards,</span></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Eric Stecker</span></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Berger Bullets</span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Next Case: Bullet Performance at Short Range Please Read Mr. Stecker's comments below</span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"><span style="color: #3e3e3e"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">1. </span></span><span style="color: #3e3e3e"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">Craig,</span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"><span style="color: #3e3e3e"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'"></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"><span style="color: #3e3e3e"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">I make the Bergers so you would be wise to take in some feedback from other hunters and shooters. However I can share with you my personal experience when using our VLD for game hunting. </span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"><span style="color: #3e3e3e"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'"></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"><span style="color: #3e3e3e"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">When we learned that the VLD was being used very successfully on game up to elk and moose size Walt and I decided we should test this ourselves before we supported their use for hunting. </span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"><span style="color: #3e3e3e"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'"></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"><span style="color: #3e3e3e"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">To make a long stort short over one year Walt and I took or watched shot 36 animals including wild hogs, goats, small deer and 4 large red stag bucks. Every single animal went down fast with most dropping in their tracks.</span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"><span style="color: #3e3e3e"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'"></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"><span style="color: #3e3e3e"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">We tested the VLD in every caliber from 6mm and larger in the field and in media. All the tests </span></span><span style="color: red"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">(including those through</span></span> <span style="color: red"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">bone at short range)</span></span><span style="color: #3e3e3e"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'"> show the same result. The VLD penetrate 2" to 3" before it starts to expand and then it expands rapidly distributing the majority of the bullet into the surrounding vital organs as schrapnel. This produces massive internal tissue damage that puts animals down fast. (Wound channel will be from 15" to 18" long which is more than enough for game.</span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"><span style="color: #3e3e3e"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'"></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"><span style="color: #3e3e3e"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">We further sent bullets to 160 hunters through the North American Hunters Club so that we could get field tests from a cross section of shooters that most likely represented all the different types of hunters in the US. We received the highest satisfaction ranking among the items tested at that stage and not one animal was lost.</span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"><span style="color: #3e3e3e"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'"></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"><span style="color: #3e3e3e"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">Since then many hunters have used the Berger VLD with great success. So far we have not received one report of a lost animal (I do not expect that it will never happen but it says something that it hasn't happened yet). The bullets have been written up in <em>Handloader</em> by John Barsness (August 2007) who tested the bullets himself. He has called them "the best deer killing bullet he has ever used". Those who are familiar with John Barsness know what weight that statement carries.</span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"><span style="color: #3e3e3e"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'"></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"><span style="color: #3e3e3e"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">Regarding accuracy, Berger has been making bullets for competition target shooting since 1955. Shooters have used Berger all over the world to set records, win matches of every size and acheive their personal best. I am confident that we have the accuracy part sorted out.</span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"><span style="color: #3e3e3e"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'"></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"><span style="color: #3e3e3e"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">Regards,</span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"><span style="color: #3e3e3e"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">Eric </span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></span> </p><p>Here is John Barnness Take on the Myths of Target bullets and the phantom "superficial flesh wound and bullets blowing up on the outside of a critter"</p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'Century-Book'"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'">The bad rap on such "tender"</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Century-Book'"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'">bullets is that they'll sometimes</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Century-Book'"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'">expand too quickly, creating a</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Century-Book'"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'">surface wound rather than tearing</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Century-Book'"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'">up the vitals inside the chest.</span></span></p><p><span style="color: red"><span style="font-family: 'Century-Book'"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'">This never happened, even on</span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'"><span style="color: red"><span style="font-family: 'Century-Book'">shoulder shots</span></span><span style="font-family: 'Century-Book'">. I propped up one</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Century-Book'"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'">dead lung-shot billy goat and</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Century-Book'"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'">shot it through both shoulders at</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Century-Book'"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'">10 yards with the .30-06. The bullet</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Century-Book'"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'">went right through both</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Century-Book'"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'">shoulder joints. Even the headshot</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Century-Book'"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'">fallow doe showed the typical</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Century-Book'"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'">VLD expansion: a tiny</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Century-Book'"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'">entrance hole through the skull</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Century-Book'"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'">just beneath the ear, then de-</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Century-Book'"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'">struction of the far side of the</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Century-Book'"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'">skull.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Century-Book'"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'">I'd hoped we'd take more like</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Century-Book'"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'">50 animals during our stay, but</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Century-Book'"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'">the last two days it rained hard</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Century-Book'"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'">almost all day long. We did go</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Century-Book'"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'">out, slipping and sliding in the</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Century-Book'"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'">lodge's ATVs, and shot some</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Century-Book'"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'">goats but not nearly as many as</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Century-Book'"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'">on nicer days. Between the NAHC</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Century-Book'"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'">deer hunters, the pigs in West</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Century-Book'"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'">Virginia and the trip to New</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Century-Book'"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'">Zealand, close to 200 big game</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Century-Book'"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'">animals ranging from 40 to 400</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Century-Book'"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'">pounds in weight have been</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Century-Book'"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'">killed during field-testing of</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Century-Book'"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'">VLDs. None failed to penetrate,</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Century-Book'"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'">and in general the bullets killed</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Century-Book'"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'">very quickly, understandable</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Century-Book'"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'">when we opened up the animals</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Century-Book'"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'">and saw the amount of tissue destruction.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Century-Book'"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'">The penetration results</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Century-Book'"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'">in the Test Tube matched those</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Century-Book'"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'">of many popular deer bullets,</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Century-Book'"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'">about 11 inches, but some hunters</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Century-Book'"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'">have used VLDs on big bull elk</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Century-Book'"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri'">and reported very quick kills.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Century-Book'">I have yet to experience anything other than what has been described above and that's why I stated what I stated in my first post. I have hunted with outfitters that would not allow Nosler Accubonds in their camps. Does that make them a bad bullet? Of course not, I have no opinion on them or any experience with them. I have however been shooting VLD bullets since before 2004 on Elk size game. For all the above information just google Berger VLD Tests and you will find all of these posts. You can also get Mr. Barnness article on the Berger website. Happy Hunting!</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Century-Book'">On a side note, I don't shoot Berger Bullets anymore. I have switched to Swampy's JLK's. I was frustrated with Berger's varying so much lot to lot. I ordered some test bullets from Swampy a year and a half ago and compared them to some old bullets that Jimmy Knox built and they were spot on in all dimensions. No more having to change load or seating depth to match my BDC data. So as far as Bergers are concerned, I may not like them anymore, but they are still a darn good overall hunting bullet. </span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Century-Book'">Kirby, I did go back and read a bunch of your posts. I do believe you have a lot to bring to the table, we just definately got off on the wrong foot on this conversation.</span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Shooter264, post: 484442, member: 23746"] I don't mean to beat a dead horse but I asked for someone to bring some facts to the table yesterday. I have not seen anything yet from anyone else, just opinions, no hard numbers and no test cases. This is including what I brought to the table which was merely my opinion yesterday. I went back a looked at a few things and this is what I came up with. First to answer the question about Berger not Knowing their VLD bullets were good as Hunting Bullets, read this post by Eric Stecker. I doubt he is being dishonest just because he is hoping to get a Military contract. [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]EricStecker[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]August 15, 2006, 12:09 PM[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Snuffy, I really appreciate your being a part of the testing of Berger Bullets for the NAHC. I read your post and wanted to clarify a few details. Walt sold the company for the purpose of combining Berger's knowledge of how to make bullets with a large, high tech manufacturer (who was making the J4 bullet jacket) so that we could develop machines that would produce more bullets. The number one complaint we have received throughout the years is lack of availability. For several years we worked on our own "hunting" bullet. We tried everything from bonding to core locking. We even put smaller bullets inside the jackets of larger bullets. The one thing that we could not achieve that we also insisted on was accuracy. We eventually gave up on the idea of producing a "hunting" bullet. During the 2004 SHOT Show we were approached by The Best of the West which is a hunting TV show on cable. They asked us if we would like to sponsor their TV show. We told them that we do not make a hunting bullets and they replied "oh yes you do." They produced a small DVD player and played a video showing many animals being taken at [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=red][FONT=Verdana]short[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana] and [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=red][FONT=Verdana]long range[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]. They had been using our Berger VLD bullets for years with great success. One of the first things Walt (who is still very involved with the company and my grandfather-in-law) noticed is that most of the animals (from antelope to elk) were dropping when they were hit. A few others would run fifty feet or less then drop. What we have learned is that the VLD bullet using its sharp nose penetrates through the initial 2" to 3" of tissue (including bone). After it penetratres into the animal it expands shedding 80% to 90% of its weight. These pieces of shrapnel create a devastating wound channel deep inside the animal's vital area. The result is an animal that drops and/or bleeds out very quickly. Bullets that maintain their weight create wound channels that are the result of blunt trauma which is like hitting the inside of the animal with a hammer. Our bullets act more like a grenade creating a massive amount of tissue damage and hemraging deep inside the animal. They are in fact our same match grade bullets used by competition target shooters around the world. The difference between our match grade bullets and others is the VLD nose profile which results in deep initial penetration. Also, since the J4 jacket is tapered at the mouth you still get expansion on long shots (elk have been taken with our bullets at 900+ yards). I hope you try our bullets and expect that you will find out like many other hunters that Berger VLDs give you the result you want, great shot placement due to accuracy and an animal that falls quickly due to terminal performance. Regards, Eric Stecker Berger Bullets[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Next Case: Bullet Performance at Short Range Please Read Mr. Stecker's comments below[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=#3e3e3e][FONT=Tahoma]1. [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#3e3e3e][FONT=Tahoma]Craig, I make the Bergers so you would be wise to take in some feedback from other hunters and shooters. However I can share with you my personal experience when using our VLD for game hunting. When we learned that the VLD was being used very successfully on game up to elk and moose size Walt and I decided we should test this ourselves before we supported their use for hunting. To make a long stort short over one year Walt and I took or watched shot 36 animals including wild hogs, goats, small deer and 4 large red stag bucks. Every single animal went down fast with most dropping in their tracks. We tested the VLD in every caliber from 6mm and larger in the field and in media. All the tests [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=red][FONT=Tahoma](including those through[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#3e3e3e][FONT=Tahoma] [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=red][FONT=Tahoma]bone at short range)[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#3e3e3e][FONT=Tahoma] show the same result. The VLD penetrate 2" to 3" before it starts to expand and then it expands rapidly distributing the majority of the bullet into the surrounding vital organs as schrapnel. This produces massive internal tissue damage that puts animals down fast. (Wound channel will be from 15" to 18" long which is more than enough for game. We further sent bullets to 160 hunters through the North American Hunters Club so that we could get field tests from a cross section of shooters that most likely represented all the different types of hunters in the US. We received the highest satisfaction ranking among the items tested at that stage and not one animal was lost. Since then many hunters have used the Berger VLD with great success. So far we have not received one report of a lost animal (I do not expect that it will never happen but it says something that it hasn't happened yet). The bullets have been written up in [I]Handloader[/I] by John Barsness (August 2007) who tested the bullets himself. He has called them "the best deer killing bullet he has ever used". Those who are familiar with John Barsness know what weight that statement carries. Regarding accuracy, Berger has been making bullets for competition target shooting since 1955. Shooters have used Berger all over the world to set records, win matches of every size and acheive their personal best. I am confident that we have the accuracy part sorted out. Regards, Eric [/FONT][/COLOR] [/FONT][/COLOR] Here is John Barnness Take on the Myths of Target bullets and the phantom "superficial flesh wound and bullets blowing up on the outside of a critter" [FONT=Century-Book][FONT=Calibri]The bad rap on such “tender”[/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=Century-Book][FONT=Calibri]bullets is that they’ll sometimes[/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=Century-Book][FONT=Calibri]expand too quickly, creating a[/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=Century-Book][FONT=Calibri]surface wound rather than tearing[/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=Century-Book][FONT=Calibri]up the vitals inside the chest.[/FONT][/FONT] [COLOR=red][FONT=Century-Book][FONT=Calibri]This never happened, even on[/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR] [FONT=Calibri][COLOR=red][FONT=Century-Book]shoulder shots[/FONT][/COLOR][FONT=Century-Book]. I propped up one[/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=Century-Book][FONT=Calibri]dead lung-shot billy goat and[/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=Century-Book][FONT=Calibri]shot it through both shoulders at[/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=Century-Book][FONT=Calibri]10 yards with the .30-06. The bullet[/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=Century-Book][FONT=Calibri]went right through both[/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=Century-Book][FONT=Calibri]shoulder joints. Even the headshot[/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=Century-Book][FONT=Calibri]fallow doe showed the typical[/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=Century-Book][FONT=Calibri]VLD expansion: a tiny[/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=Century-Book][FONT=Calibri]entrance hole through the skull[/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=Century-Book][FONT=Calibri]just beneath the ear, then de-[/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=Century-Book][FONT=Calibri]struction of the far side of the[/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=Century-Book][FONT=Calibri]skull.[/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=Century-Book][FONT=Calibri]I’d hoped we’d take more like[/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=Century-Book][FONT=Calibri]50 animals during our stay, but[/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=Century-Book][FONT=Calibri]the last two days it rained hard[/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=Century-Book][FONT=Calibri]almost all day long. We did go[/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=Century-Book][FONT=Calibri]out, slipping and sliding in the[/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=Century-Book][FONT=Calibri]lodge’s ATVs, and shot some[/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=Century-Book][FONT=Calibri]goats but not nearly as many as[/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=Century-Book][FONT=Calibri]on nicer days. Between the NAHC[/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=Century-Book][FONT=Calibri]deer hunters, the pigs in West[/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=Century-Book][FONT=Calibri]Virginia and the trip to New[/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=Century-Book][FONT=Calibri]Zealand, close to 200 big game[/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=Century-Book][FONT=Calibri]animals ranging from 40 to 400[/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=Century-Book][FONT=Calibri]pounds in weight have been[/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=Century-Book][FONT=Calibri]killed during field-testing of[/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=Century-Book][FONT=Calibri]VLDs. None failed to penetrate,[/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=Century-Book][FONT=Calibri]and in general the bullets killed[/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=Century-Book][FONT=Calibri]very quickly, understandable[/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=Century-Book][FONT=Calibri]when we opened up the animals[/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=Century-Book][FONT=Calibri]and saw the amount of tissue destruction.[/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=Century-Book][FONT=Calibri]The penetration results[/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=Century-Book][FONT=Calibri]in the Test Tube matched those[/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=Century-Book][FONT=Calibri]of many popular deer bullets,[/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=Century-Book][FONT=Calibri]about 11 inches, but some hunters[/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=Century-Book][FONT=Calibri]have used VLDs on big bull elk[/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=Century-Book][FONT=Calibri]and reported very quick kills.[/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=Century-Book]I have yet to experience anything other than what has been described above and that's why I stated what I stated in my first post. I have hunted with outfitters that would not allow Nosler Accubonds in their camps. Does that make them a bad bullet? Of course not, I have no opinion on them or any experience with them. I have however been shooting VLD bullets since before 2004 on Elk size game. For all the above information just google Berger VLD Tests and you will find all of these posts. You can also get Mr. Barnness article on the Berger website. Happy Hunting![/FONT] [FONT=Century-Book]On a side note, I don't shoot Berger Bullets anymore. I have switched to Swampy's JLK's. I was frustrated with Berger's varying so much lot to lot. I ordered some test bullets from Swampy a year and a half ago and compared them to some old bullets that Jimmy Knox built and they were spot on in all dimensions. No more having to change load or seating depth to match my BDC data. So as far as Bergers are concerned, I may not like them anymore, but they are still a darn good overall hunting bullet. [/FONT] [FONT=Century-Book]Kirby, I did go back and read a bunch of your posts. I do believe you have a lot to bring to the table, we just definately got off on the wrong foot on this conversation.[/FONT] [/QUOTE]
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7mm mag and bergers for canadian game
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