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Hunting
Long Range Hunting & Shooting
600 yard ladder or 100 yard groups?
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<blockquote data-quote="FNA3G" data-source="post: 1417150" data-attributes="member: 62205"><p>100 yds is plenty far to perform testing. Im not a fan of long range ladder tests due to statistical anomalies from the accuracy of the rifle and shooter plus weather conditions. Too many variables for any meaningful data analysis without shooting multiple examples of the same settings with a control group to act as the constant. A good chronograph to provide accurate SD and ES plus a good charge weight workup at 100yds will provide much better data than single rounds of charge weights at distance. However I am all for confirmation testing at distance with the load you expect to shoot but not developing a load at distance. </p><p></p><p>I am an engineer by trade and I originally did the ladder test and so on but after working on rifles for 15 years now and tracking all my data through countless load workups for customers every way under the sun I have formed my own opinions on what has any real impacts on the outcome. There are many ways to skin the cat but I believe the following to be true:</p><p>1.) 100yds is close enough to minimize weather and shooter error while being far enough to begin to show undesirable variances</p><p>2.) Low SD and ES in succession (flat spots) with different charge weights very often indicates optimal charge weights. Theres always outliers but thats why more rounds at 100yds is better than few at 600 for data comparison.</p><p>3.) A good load at 100 is a good load at 600 and a bad load at 100 is bad at 600. Its impossible for bullets to scatter at 200 yds just to come back together at 800 without outside influences.</p><p>4.)Charge weight first, seating depth second only if necessary. No reason to adjust depth in increments less than .005 because our calipers are accurate to +/-.001 and without constrained, repeatable measuring practice such as a friction thimble you can figure that adds +/-.002. ( numbers come from my records on operators measuring bearing raceways at my day job). Also the throat on hot calibers can erode at first by more than .001 within 100 rds, so if you believe you find the sweet spot by dropping .001" at a time then dont load more than 50 rounds in a sitting at that depth or you will fall out of your magical bubble at round 51. </p><p>5. Just because you shot 1 3 round group of .300" does not mean your rifle is a 1/2moa rifle nor does it mean you have an issue if tomorrow it shoots .600".</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="FNA3G, post: 1417150, member: 62205"] 100 yds is plenty far to perform testing. Im not a fan of long range ladder tests due to statistical anomalies from the accuracy of the rifle and shooter plus weather conditions. Too many variables for any meaningful data analysis without shooting multiple examples of the same settings with a control group to act as the constant. A good chronograph to provide accurate SD and ES plus a good charge weight workup at 100yds will provide much better data than single rounds of charge weights at distance. However I am all for confirmation testing at distance with the load you expect to shoot but not developing a load at distance. I am an engineer by trade and I originally did the ladder test and so on but after working on rifles for 15 years now and tracking all my data through countless load workups for customers every way under the sun I have formed my own opinions on what has any real impacts on the outcome. There are many ways to skin the cat but I believe the following to be true: 1.) 100yds is close enough to minimize weather and shooter error while being far enough to begin to show undesirable variances 2.) Low SD and ES in succession (flat spots) with different charge weights very often indicates optimal charge weights. Theres always outliers but thats why more rounds at 100yds is better than few at 600 for data comparison. 3.) A good load at 100 is a good load at 600 and a bad load at 100 is bad at 600. Its impossible for bullets to scatter at 200 yds just to come back together at 800 without outside influences. 4.)Charge weight first, seating depth second only if necessary. No reason to adjust depth in increments less than .005 because our calipers are accurate to +/-.001 and without constrained, repeatable measuring practice such as a friction thimble you can figure that adds +/-.002. ( numbers come from my records on operators measuring bearing raceways at my day job). Also the throat on hot calibers can erode at first by more than .001 within 100 rds, so if you believe you find the sweet spot by dropping .001" at a time then dont load more than 50 rounds in a sitting at that depth or you will fall out of your magical bubble at round 51. 5. Just because you shot 1 3 round group of .300" does not mean your rifle is a 1/2moa rifle nor does it mean you have an issue if tomorrow it shoots .600". [/QUOTE]
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600 yard ladder or 100 yard groups?
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