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Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics
.408 Status???
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<blockquote data-quote="CatShooter" data-source="post: 22982" data-attributes="member: 7"><p>PrimeTime...</p><p></p><p> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR><strong></strong></p><p><strong>To be more difinitive, its use as a sniper round. I do believe most of the published data on the 408.</strong><HR></BLOCKQUOTE></p><p></p><p>Most of the published data is probably true, except for the accuracy claims. <strong>But</strong>... the comparisons with the 50BMG should be done with equal quality bullets for in the 50BMG, for a realistic (and fair) comparison.</p><p></p><p></p><p> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR><strong></strong></p><p><strong>It would seem that for a sniper cartridge, the advantage would favor the .408 over the 50bmg for several reasons. First, the availability of a high quality bullet.</strong></p><p><strong></strong><HR></BLOCKQUOTE></p><p></p><p>There are <strong>MANY</strong> different "quality" match bullets for the 50BMG. There are the 750gr A-Max. and the Barnes Bronze match bullets, plus a plethera of unique bullets by makes... bore riders, and others... many of these bullets have PROVEN accurace records in registered matches... something the .408 has yet to accomplish.</p><p></p><p> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR><strong></strong></p><p><strong>Second, having high quality brass to launch these bullets.</strong></p><p><strong></strong><HR></BLOCKQUOTE></p><p></p><p>There is quality brass available... 1000 yard matches with 50BMG rifles are shooting smaller groups than their 30 cal brothers... the 50 cal record with a 50BMG is under 3" @ 1000 yds. All done with select brass... just like any 30 cal match shooter does.</p><p></p><p> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR><strong></strong></p><p> <strong>You also have less recoil...</strong></p><p><strong></strong><HR></BLOCKQUOTE></p><p></p><p>The recoil on my 50BMG bolt gun is about that of a .308... virtually ALL of these big guns, the .408 included, have effective muzzle breaks fitted to them, otherwise, shooting a rifle that has 12,000+ foot pounds of muzzle energy will kill at both ends, and one shot would be all you could stand!</p><p>The recoil differences between the 408 and the 50BMG is a non issue.</p><p></p><p> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR><strong></strong></p><p><strong>... and can carry more more ammo due to the smaller size and weight. If I were a sniper, those things would be important to me.</strong></p><p><strong></strong><HR></BLOCKQUOTE></p><p></p><p>The weight of the ammo is also a non issue. To field one of these guns takes a "bunch" of kit... the weight difference of a few pounds would not even show up in the overall weight load of all the equipment that went with the gun and the team. </p><p></p><p> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR><strong></strong></p><p><strong>I shoot in 1,000 yard competition and spend hours of my time and almost embarassing amounts of money trying to achieve long range accuracy. I have seen military ammunition for the 50bmg and I cringe at the thought of using it for sniping. Maybe the snipers have their own better quality ammo, I hope so.</strong></p><p><strong></strong><HR></BLOCKQUOTE></p><p></p><p>The military ammunition that you have seen for the 50BMG is mass produced machinegun ammo... it is required to shoot 2" groups at 100 yds.</p><p></p><p>But I will take your comment to it's logical conclusion...</p><p><strong>"I have seen military ammunition for the .308-7.62mm and I cringe at the thought of using it in a match (or for sniping)."</strong></p><p> </p><p>The military 308 (M80) ammunition is the quality equivalent to the 50BMG ammo that you saw. I doubt that you would shoot that .308 ammo in one of your long-range matches.</p><p>However, it is certainly clear to anyone that follows Palma shooting, that the .308 is a VERY capable cartridge at 1000 yards.</p><p></p><p> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR><strong></strong></p><p><strong>I am certainly no expert on either of these cartridges but it seems to me that the 408 would be a better round for long range accuracy.</strong></p><p><strong></strong><HR></BLOCKQUOTE></p><p></p><p>After 3-ish years, that <strong>"better round for long range accuracy"</strong> has <strong>yet</strong> to be demonstrated in a fair comparison to the public, or the military.</p><p></p><p>CatShooter.</p><p></p><p>[ 08-28-2002: Message edited by: CatShooter ]</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="CatShooter, post: 22982, member: 7"] PrimeTime... <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>[B] To be more difinitive, its use as a sniper round. I do believe most of the published data on the 408.[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Most of the published data is probably true, except for the accuracy claims. [B]But[/B]... the comparisons with the 50BMG should be done with equal quality bullets for in the 50BMG, for a realistic (and fair) comparison. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>[B] It would seem that for a sniper cartridge, the advantage would favor the .408 over the 50bmg for several reasons. First, the availability of a high quality bullet. [/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> There are [B]MANY[/B] different "quality" match bullets for the 50BMG. There are the 750gr A-Max. and the Barnes Bronze match bullets, plus a plethera of unique bullets by makes... bore riders, and others... many of these bullets have PROVEN accurace records in registered matches... something the .408 has yet to accomplish. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>[B] Second, having high quality brass to launch these bullets. [/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> There is quality brass available... 1000 yard matches with 50BMG rifles are shooting smaller groups than their 30 cal brothers... the 50 cal record with a 50BMG is under 3" @ 1000 yds. All done with select brass... just like any 30 cal match shooter does. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>[B] You also have less recoil... [/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> The recoil on my 50BMG bolt gun is about that of a .308... virtually ALL of these big guns, the .408 included, have effective muzzle breaks fitted to them, otherwise, shooting a rifle that has 12,000+ foot pounds of muzzle energy will kill at both ends, and one shot would be all you could stand! The recoil differences between the 408 and the 50BMG is a non issue. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>[B] ... and can carry more more ammo due to the smaller size and weight. If I were a sniper, those things would be important to me. [/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> The weight of the ammo is also a non issue. To field one of these guns takes a "bunch" of kit... the weight difference of a few pounds would not even show up in the overall weight load of all the equipment that went with the gun and the team. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>[B] I shoot in 1,000 yard competition and spend hours of my time and almost embarassing amounts of money trying to achieve long range accuracy. I have seen military ammunition for the 50bmg and I cringe at the thought of using it for sniping. Maybe the snipers have their own better quality ammo, I hope so. [/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> The military ammunition that you have seen for the 50BMG is mass produced machinegun ammo... it is required to shoot 2" groups at 100 yds. But I will take your comment to it's logical conclusion... [B]"I have seen military ammunition for the .308-7.62mm and I cringe at the thought of using it in a match (or for sniping)."[/B] The military 308 (M80) ammunition is the quality equivalent to the 50BMG ammo that you saw. I doubt that you would shoot that .308 ammo in one of your long-range matches. However, it is certainly clear to anyone that follows Palma shooting, that the .308 is a VERY capable cartridge at 1000 yards. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>[B] I am certainly no expert on either of these cartridges but it seems to me that the 408 would be a better round for long range accuracy. [/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> After 3-ish years, that [B]"better round for long range accuracy"[/B] has [B]yet[/B] to be demonstrated in a fair comparison to the public, or the military. CatShooter. [ 08-28-2002: Message edited by: CatShooter ] [/QUOTE]
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